questions of jukar

[garbear]

My dad built a muzzle loader in 45 cal. it looks like a kentucky rifle the barrel is 33 inches long and the barrel says jukar spain on it. I have no idea of twist rate. The barrel had some rust but I have cleaned it out. Can anyone tell me where to go to learn about this rifle. Dad was shooting conicals in it and i have shot all those. I want to get this thing running maybe hunting anterless deer with it on a special hunt in Aug. So I need mold sugestions and how find the twist rate. I have had it inspected and it is safe to shoot.

[n.h.schmidt]

I have one of these. They are very common ,even after many years of out of production. They are slow twist about 1 in 60 or so.This is best for a patched round ball of .440 dia. In most cases this slow twist will not work so well with slugs. I have tried a 200gr Lee Real in mine with marginal results.
Good luck with yours.
n.h.schmidt

[RBak]

That .45 of yours will "most likely' have a twist of 1:48 which was, and still is a very common twist for the .45 caliber.
Jukar came along sometime in the early 1970's. Turner Kirkland at DGW must have sold thousands of those things because they were suddenly seen everywhere.

Although they were considered an entry level gun, many are still around and are still very functional.
One thing is / was fairly obivous with every one I ever looked at, and that was the fact they are not top quality.
However, at the price they were being sold for, they sold a bunch of 'em.

When they were being produced, I remember the advertisement at that time was Jukar was "The world's largest producer of Black Powder guns". I think the advertisement may have sold a lot of guns.

Back in that day Black Powder shooting was just catching on good, and many Gunsmiths didn't want to mess with these guns because parts were extremely hard to come by..... and, if the Gunsmith had to make a part by hand, the repair bill was typically very close to the cost of a new rifle.

Russ...

[waksupi]

The barrels are of very questionable quality. Stick with light loads, and patched round ball only.

[northmn]

They generaly shot a 440 ball. As to hunting with one, it should be a passable deer rifle. 60 grains of 3f will handle most any deer within reasonable range and should shoot OK out of the rifle. You will likely not get outstanding accuracy from it, but should get minute of deer. Also a 45 is generally best used inside of 75 yards although there will be someone who will state that he killed one further. You will have to use a file to sight in the rifle if it isn't close already. Due to the lock you cannot get a really fine trigger pull but should be able to get an adequate one.

Northmn

[garbear]

I am certain Dad built it in the 70's. he said that the slugs he used were accurate I have been cleaning the heck out of it because it has been sitting in his gun safe. I have round ball. His load was 80 grains he didn't remeber if he used ffg or fffg. The slugs had a hollow base and shallow grooves. So do I have a 1-48 twist or the 1-60 twist rate. I have heard both twist rates. Also is there any way to convert to a rock lock.

[John Taylor]

There were a lot of these sold as kit guns. I believe the first one I had was under $40. Parts in the lock are not hardened and prone to ware. Never had reliable ignition. The reamer marks in the bore looked deeper than the rifling. There were several of us trying to shoot these things in competition and they were so pore that we called them "junkers". Closest I ever got to winning was when I won the shoot off for the booby prize, The other Jukar failed to fire. They look neat from a distance hanging on the wall.

[mooman76]

I have more than one Jukar. I would have to say by an educated guess you have a 1/66 twist. that was very common for the .45 Kentucky rifles years ago. Best I can tell they were imported and maketed by CVA. Mine I bought used(in early 80's) and later on converted to a Rock lock a few years later. My parts at that time matched CVA perfectly so either CVA imported them or thet were made an marketed under allot of different names. Back then there weren't allot of BP guns around so there were few manufactures. CVA does their own guns now so I understand.
Anyway since your dad said it shot conicals well I would think it would have a tighter twist than 1/66, more like 1/48. I know that contradicts what I said earlier but it also depends on what you accurate means. One mans accurate is different than another. Mine shoot Lee REALs pretty well except for occational flyers which would tend me to believe that it was on the edge of stability with having the right twist. RBs shot better and it is a decent shooter.
We could go back and forth all day about the twist rate but the best way to find out is take your ram rod with a cleaning jag and a tight patch. Mark the rod where it goes in and mark it 24" up the rod. Push the rod in taking note how far the rod twists. If it goes half way around when you push it in the your gun is 1/48 twist but if it goes 2/3 the way around it is 1/60 or 1/66. I can send you some Lee reals to try in it if you want.

http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbt...Number=1545713

[Mk42gunner]

CVA sold a lot of Jukar kit guns. My first one was a Kentucky pistol that I paid $34.00 for in 1977 or so. I shot a lot of .440" round balls out of mine,and killed quite a few starlings with it. It might not be the best quality, but I had a lot of fun with that pistol.


Robert

[mooman76]

I did a little on line searching on Jukar. I found out the first ones that came out were of poor quality at best. They were ok but at very moderate loads. They didn't have a powder drum instead they had a solid piece attached some how, welded or whatever and they also had allot of barrels with runout. I believe I have one, I bought recently as a kit still in the box from I believe 1973. It seamed ok but I will not put heavy or near loads through it. It says Hopkins$ Allen but also says maid in Spain and what I here Jukar made allot of BP guns for different comanies. My other Jukar is of much better Quality. Far from the best but looks and shoots allot better. I also have a Jukar Flintlock Pistol I bought at a gun show years back for $10. It looked like someone put it together and never blued it but shot it and didn't clean it. I knew the parts were worth that so I bought it, cleaned it up and it turned out so good I hated to fire it but I had to of coarse. I also heard that CVA boght out Jukar in the late 70's.

[John Taylor]

Hopkins & allen is the name Numrich used for their rifles and pistols, including under hammers. They still have a few parts.

[northmn]

I could easily convert the rifle to a rock lock but very strongly recommend against it. You do not have the value in the rifle to make that effort worthwhile. A good flintlock costs more than the Jukar.

Northmn

[bigwillye]

I was given a jukar BP .45 cal rifle with a ball stuck in it. And I've never owned
any BP guns before, is there a removable breach plug and if so how do I get it out? It looks to me that the tang is one piece with the barrel and it comes down infront of what appears to be a breach plug. Also the previous owner while trying to remove the precussion nipple seriously scarred and chewed up the metal thing the nipple screws into and I can't get that to unscrew from the barrel to try a powder charge to expell the ball.......... Needles to say I don't have a bullet puller for the ram rod or any other BP tools....... CAN ANYONE GIVE ME ADVISE ON HOW TO REMEDY THIS SO I CAN SHOOT................. Please email me bigwillye77@yahoo.com


thanks

[izzyjoe]

that thing the nipple screws into is called the powder drum, you migth try soaking it in some kroil oil. if it don't come then bad news!! i was in the same shoes as you once ,and i took an old man and made it a advice wall hanger!!!

[gifford]

I'd second izzyjoe's advice on kroil oil around the threads on the nipple and the powder drum. It wouldn't hurt to pour a bit down the barrel as well. Liquid wrench works well also. Leave it set for a couple days and let the oil loosen things up.

I've helped out several folks with similar problems, sometimes it's a "dry ball" meaning no powder other times it's a loaded gun. ALWAYS assume a muzzleloader is loaded. There is a device called a bullet puller, it's a screw on the end of the cleaning rod attachment. Several friends can be helpfull, one to hold the rifle and you pull on the cleanning rod once the screw is in the recalciterant ball. It may work maybe not.

Good luck on the project.

[RBak]

Several friends can be helpfull, one to hold the rifle and you pull on the cleanning rod once the screw is in the recalciterant ball.

I've called a stuck ball a lot things, but never a "recalcitrant"...always seemed to me that this situation is a perfect place for a liberal application of ever dirty little four letter word you can come up with....and, you don't even have to say 'em out loud.

Suspect I should try this one, for a change. Who knows? This may be the whole secret.

Russ

[gifford]

RBack - The recaliterant ball was stuck good, the screw broke off in the ball. That happens occasionally. Eventually enough powder was coaxed into the nipple hole to shoot it out. Didn't find it though.

I carry a .32 cal ball with a hole in it from the screw on the end of my flint pick; helps remind me, powder - patch - ball in that order.

[docone31]

Gif, I have my wife counting cadence with me when I load. I cannot tell you how many senior moments I have had during that.
I line up the sights, pull back the hammer, set the trigger, pull it, click.
Here we go again!!!!
Uncsrew the nipple, put in some powder. Pack it with the nipple pick, screw the nipple back on, set a cap, set the hammer, pull the trigger. Unscrew the nipple, pour in some more powder, set the cap, set the hammer, pull the trigger. Make a vow to not do that again!
Do it again....
I have even marked the ramrod! By the time I have set the patched ball, or R.E.A.L., it is too late. The marks tell me I did it again!
My wife has done it, I have done it. Both of us, many times.
I had often wondered how it was possible at the range.
That is where I have done it the most.
Oiy....

[waksupi]

Doc, you are setting someone up for a pipe bomb there. You left out, after you add the powder, be SURE the projectile is rammed down fully!

Gif, I have my wife counting cadence with me when I load. I cannot tell you how many senior moments I have had during that.
I line up the sights, pull back the hammer, set the trigger, pull it, click.
Here we go again!!!!
Uncsrew the nipple, put in some powder. Pack it with the nipple pick, screw the nipple back on, set a cap, set the hammer, pull the trigger. Unscrew the nipple, pour in some more powder, set the cap, set the hammer, pull the trigger. Make a vow to not do that again!
Do it again....
I have even marked the ramrod! By the time I have set the patched ball, or R.E.A.L., it is too late. The marks tell me I did it again!
My wife has done it, I have done it. Both of us, many times.
I had often wondered how it was possible at the range.
That is where I have done it the most.
Oiy....

[docone31]

Good point, except I count on some movement of the ball.
I seem to need to do it twice to eject a powderless ball.
The first time, I get enough to open up a space, the second, I get about 10gns of powder into the chamber. I also then verify it is out. My mark on the ramrod is the key there.
I do have to suspect some discretion from folks here.
When someone cares about their smokepole, they do watch out.
Then again, I have seen some at the range.
Makes me glad folks here do point out the weaknesses when they are written.