International Lawn Steel shooting

[Pee Wee]

I just can't stand it, wed is coming up and I will not be able to play "The Game", got to go to the Drs. this getting old really sucks. But all is not lost, I will be able to shoot on Sunday, and then on the Wed. after that. I had to send my RCBS furnace that Roy gave me back to RCBS to get refurbished, it developed a serious leak 2 weeks ago when I was casting, I had just gotten 20lbs melted and was starting to pour and she just opened up and dumped the whole 20lbs in about 2 min, luckily I had a small tin that held all of the lead that leaked out. Now I have a 20lb ingot, I don't think it is going to fit back in the pot, may have to cut it down. I am hoping that it gets back pretty soon, as I am out of 38 cal. boolits. I have 250 loaded but that will only last about three days of "The Game." Orville is right about the weather, I have been picking up range lead a couple pounds at a time at the range whenever I go and have about three gallons bucket full, so this afternoon I decided that it was time to clean it and get it ready to smelt for my 9mm and 45acp. It was so darn hot I was sweeting cleaning them, then it started to rain finally got them cleaned and ready to go. 80 degrees on Dec. 21 can you believe it, man I do love it here, well got to go size and lube some 45s. hope everyone has a wonderful holiday.
I love This Game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[Michael J. Spangler]

i'm so jealous. this game sounds amazing.
i wish my vacation spot in the spring were a little closer. ah well. maybe next year
until then i'll keep up with it on here and live through the forums

[DukeInFlorida]

WX for tomorrow's shoot is 80 degrees.

Wearing my Santa hat might cause some sweating while shooting.

Michael, just tell her that you have an important business trip to Daytona. Or, fly Allegient (spelling?) airlines into Sanford Intl airport. Round trip under $200.
You can stay here.

[DukeInFlorida]

Well, the WX broke records for this area. It was 80 F when this picture was taken.
Me, in the middle, fast Eddy on my right (your left), and GunArea (Evil Roy) on my left, your right:

[DukeInFlorida]

Sunday, December 28th... 82 degrees on the shooting line, partly cloudy.

The club allows us to shoot an occasional Sunday, when the shooting bay where we shoot isn't being used for anything else. Today was such a Sunday. The nice thing about shooting Sundays (versus our normal Wednesdays) is that some of the shooters who still work for a living (and can't otherwise shoot on a Wednesday work day) can join us for a few games.

So, today we had a couple of those guys join us (Brian and Rusty). Brian, who is normally a very good shot, was having an "off day", which helped me gain some of his nickels. Rusty was doing so-so (he's usually a VERY good shot). Gary and Pee Wee didn't do well either, which was great for me. I was the nickle grubber today.

Sure, I fouled a couple of times..But, I also hit MOST of the animal targets when they came my way. I started off with a mere 20 nickels, and almost tripled the pile by the end of the day.

My next project is to develop a 44 Special load for my 44 caliber contender.

Most of the shooters (not all) have found that 38 specials fired in a 357 magnum barrel work better than 357 magnum fired in the barrel. The primary reason for it is that the powder loads are so very light that reducing the size of the pressure vessel provides a more consistent transfer of energy to the bullets. I'm hoping that the 44 specials do the same in a 44 magnum barrel, vs the 44 magnums that I have been shooting (also with extremely light powder loads.) I had to do some searching to find enough 44 special brass to make a worthwhile test. And, if it works out the way I hope, I needed to have enough 100's of brass to make up a reasonable amount of shooting cartridges. I'll report findings as they develop.

[Pee Wee]

yea, I can post again, I have not been able to post for awhile, went in and set up my profile and changed my e-mail and it would not let me post. Wed. Dec.31st, We shot today at Eddies, it was a cool drizzly day but we shoot from under a covered area so the drizzle did not affect us however Jack and Orville wore shorts and the cool wet air made it tuff on them. I had a great day shooting, I was a nickel grubber today. I don't know what happend to Orville, but every time he sits next to Roy he "as Orville says shoots like ****" I do want to brag on Orville from last Sunday. For the 3rd game I was the line judge and we were playing the numbers game, ascending, this means that you shoot all of the 1s then the 2s and so on, when it was Orville's turn to shoot he was to shoot the ram 2,(they are very hard to bring down, you have to shoot them at the top of the head by the horns) Brian had put a clay on the rams horns, Orville called his shoot which was Ram 2 with the clay on the horns, so as line judge I told Orville that he had to shoot the clay and knock down the ram, if he knocked down the ram and did not hit the clay it would be a foul, so he would have to pay the line nickels, he asked to recall his shot and I told him f%*k no, (this is how you refuse a request from the line as line judge) so he proceed to hit the clay and knock down the ram, by the way I told him if he hits the clay and knocks down the ram it would pay double, so he can thank me for being the nickel grubber on sun. I have to thank Orville for my good shooting today, I have switch to new brass and a different head stamp, and he gave the pointers that help me shoot the best games I have shot so far. Man I love this game.
See you at the range
Pee Wee

[Certaindeaf]

Wow. This has me absolutely giddy at only page 1 3/4. My face hurts after watching that fist video. will continue to read

[DukeInFlorida]

Pee Wee's comment about changing brass is an important one for any and all potential Lawn Steel shooters....

Even though 38 special is 38 special, each manufacturer has their own method for making the brass cases. The case volume, and the wall thickness, and even the stretchiness of the brass varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. So, shooting MIXED headstamps in this precision game is a struggle at best. The shots will vary wildly.

Shooting all one headstamp is a key factor in this game. And, sticking to that headstamp requires having a large enough inventory of brass to load several hundred of the same thing all the time.

The castings all have to be the same, the powder charge has to be the same, and even the brass head stamp all has to be the same.

So, Pee Wee switched from Winchester headstamped brass to Federal, and was shooting a mix of both, and couldn't figure out why his shots were all over the place. He sorted out the Federals that he will now concentrate on, and re-tuned his sights to those, and started hitting with amazing accuracy.

(He owes me a $1 for that one)

[gatortommy]

I have GOT to make the drive down from Jax to shoot with you guys. I worked up a 200 gr. load for my 5" 625 that's grouping pretty well at 50 yards. Maybe next week...?

[Pee Wee]

Hey gator tommy, come on down you are at at the most an hour and a half away. Go south on I-95 till you get to the state rd 44 exit. This is the New Symra exit, you well go rt at the exit. You will go west, I think it's about 7 miles to the entrance to Volusia County Gun club. A land Mark we'll be two tall radio towers on the left, just past those you well see the entrance to the club. Just a big field no buildings, look for small sign and a entrance rd. We arrive at 8:00 am to set up and we are usually shooting about 8:30 to 8:45 we shoot 4 games if we do a timed game it runs 55 min. Untimed about the same or a little longer. We usually are done and leaving around 1:30. If we have more than 6 shooters, we switch off so every on can shoot. The only thing that you will need is a but load of nickols. We well have everything you will need to shoot. I do owe Orville a Dollar. I well gladly pay him on wed. I well continue to hone my shooting with the 38 special loads Until I am comfortable that I have perfected my loads. Then I well start workin on my 44 loads. That's a whole nether can of worms. I well get into that on another day. I love this game. See you at the range
Pee Wee

[gatortommy]

OK, I'm in. I'll be there at 8a with a pocket full of nickels.

Tom

[Pee Wee]

Ok see you wed. I will have extra rounds with me for you to shoot, along with my pistol.
See you at the range. Hey Orville, a ***.

[TCLouis]

What happens if one runs outa nickels?

Finished for the day?

Somehow the nickels seem to be the least important part of this game though they are used to keep score.

[DukeInFlorida]

If you do HORRIBLY, fouling on every shot and such, the payout per foul is 5 nickels (one to each of the other players).. You can foul like that 8 times (which is almost unheard of), because there are 40 nickels in a roll. The suggestion is to bring three rolls of nickels (a whopping $6 worth!!... high stakes, eh??).. Some of the active shooters have extra emergency nickels available. The running joke is that those cost $1 each. One of our best shooters, Honest Rob, actually has the record for the most fouls in a game. We all have to start somewhere.

What happens if one runs outa nickels?

Finished for the day?

Somehow the nickels seem to be the least important part of this game though they are used to keep score.

The nickels are NOT used to keep score of the game. They are merely the penalty for fouls and safety violations. And, also the reward for shooting and knocking down a called animal target. The place in the game is kept by each player, themselves. To a new ear, it sounds like we are reciting some weird mantra. However, it's merely that we are announcing where we are in the game.
Examples:
* When we are just beginning the game, and haven't shot at anything yet: "I'm not in the game, and I have no lollipops, I'll take a shot at lollipop#... (which ever is the appropriate lollipop to shoot at"
* Presuming that you have knocked down one lollipop (it takes TWO lollipops to get "in the game"): "I'm not in the game, but I do have a lollipop, I'll engage lollipop number... (which ever lollipop is appropriate to shoot at... that changes with the version of the game we play, as decided and announced by the appointed Line Judge)
* Presuming that you have knocked down two lollipops, your next shot: "I'm IN the game, but I do not have an animal shot, I want to shoot... (there are a number of "arbitrary" targets, non-animal, which would be engaged, depending on the game called by the line judge)
Up to now, the only nickels that exchange hands are IF a safety violation happens, or IF you accidentally shoot down a target not called. "quit 3" might be located slightly behind lollipop 4, and if, while shooting AT lollipop 4, you miss, and knock down "quit 3", that's a foul, and you pay each person on the line a nickel. This foul doesn't change your place in the game.

* Presuming that you have knocked down the called arbitrary target, you are then "IN THE GAME: I'm IN the game, and have an animal shot. I'll shoot at ...." (which ever animal is appropriate, depending on the nature of the game which the Line Judge announced at the beginning).. If you knock that animal down, you get paid a nickel by each of the other shooters, and your next shot will be another arbitrary target shot. You have to earn an animal shot by achieving a arbitrary target knockdown.

Ok, sounds complicated, right? It's really not..... Once you get past the shyness of loudly announcing where you are in the game, it's all about your shooting ability, and the strategies of avoiding fouls, and making the game difficult for those after you. Knocking down the only open "club" (when playing the sequence game, where you have to knock down each of the clubs, sequentially) while leaving the rest of the clubs dangerously behind other targets is a great way to earn nickels from the others who are likely to foul. Sometimes you earn nickels from your great shooting of called animal targets, and sometimes you earn nickels because others screw up and foul.

Gator Tommy and others......... The game requires ONLY cast lead bullets (boolits) be fired at the targets. There is a maximum velocity allowed. The arc of the flight of the bullets is significant. Don't bring jacketed bullets or hot loads. You won't be allowed to shoot those. We'll lend anyone who shows up a gun and ammo for the day. And, from experience, a 5" barrel may do well for you at 150 feet. But we are shooting at 200+ feet, at somewhat small target areas on the steel.... To knock a typical ram down, you have to hit it in the top of the horns, a 4-5 square inch area. And, some shots are blocked by non-shootable targets. We often say, "There's enough room for a bullet to get through"... but just barely. I tried with a 4" Ruger GP100 on my first time out, and failed miserably. Single shot pistols and revolvers with 8-10" barrels fare much better at this game. As long as you are shooting non-hot load cast boolits, you're welcome to give your gun go.

We shoot 6 shooters on a line. Last Wednesday, New Years Eve Day, we had 9 shooters. We took turns sitting out, watching the fun, and coaching one of the new guys who showed up to shoot. Heck, Easy Eddie even supplied that new shooter (his brother in law) the nickels for the occasion. Thanks, Eddie, for the additions to my nickel pile. As such, there's always a spare gun and matching ammo available to allow anyone a chance to shoot.

Oh, and...... There is no "winner" of the game. We strive to "beat the game" meaning knock down all of the available animal targets during the allotted time and alternate targets. That actually seldom happens. We sometimes run out of the 50 minute time limit (when we actually keep track of the time of the game), or shoot down all alternate targets while failing to shoot down all of the animal targets.

Usually, no one knows, at the end of the day, how many nickels you actually won or lost (vs how many you showed up with)... It's a lot of fun and laughing, while shooting very safely, and that's why we do it. Afterwards, we often talk about "amazing shots" one of us accomplished. Or, double fouls that occasionally happen (double pay out). There's only a rough sense of who did really well on a particular day. No certainty on that. Only when we have a formal "tournament" are there trophies and prizes. And, those are for most nickels for the day, worst foul, best animal shot, etc... The regular Wednesday shoots are all about fun. They also give us an opportunity to really test run our development loads. You don't wanna fire untested loads during a shoot. That's just gonna cost you a bunch of nickels! Then again, where else can you compete with the funniest guys I know, and even it it all goes to ****, the worst cost is a few rolls of nickels($2, $4, or $6) for 5 hours of such great fun!

I'm a Yankee from New England, but suffice it to say, "Ya'll welcome to join us!"

[Pee Wee]

That is the best description of basic's of how the game is played and why I play. Along with the precison shooting required to be successful in the game. The fellowship among these guys is the best.good job Oriville. I love this game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[gunarea]

OK now
Gotta get in here and straighten out a couple of things. Three distinct groups of targets exist at the beginning of a game of Lawnsteel. Those being; Lollipop, Arbitrary and Animal. One recognized variation of Lawnsteel, the Sportsman game, having only two distinctions with Lollipops being excluded as mandatory. Once "In the game", all non-animal targets are then considered Arbitrary targets. Lollipops assume Arbitrary designation to those "In the game" and earn animal shots with successful engagement. A few of our Lawnsteel players(rat ********) are very aware of the ramifications of Lollipop eradication. (It sucks!)
Nickels are but one acceptable token form. Token value and form is determined by an authorized ILSA official prior to any ILSA sanctioned event. ILSA sanctioned events have seen irresponsible behavior from empowered persons imposing severe, impossible, ridiculous, stupid and outrageous token value and form parameters. Just to cover my exaggerations here are but a few examples; Tootsie rolls, wooden nickels, quarters, shots, cards and individually wrapped Mary Janes. Written score is also employed when set forth officially and makes for a different game. Exploration of Lawnsteel the game will reveal treasures and trivia unimagined.
The pinpoint accuracy referred to earlier is a thing common as air and elusive as Bigfoot sightings. Hours and pages could be dedicated to the mind set involved in Lawnsteel play. Just two weeks ago, Eddie shot a perfect no miss game. Last week he was disgruntled with unintentional fouls. Major disgruntle! Hidden or obscure targets can challenge a player with almost impossible positive outcome. Missing a wide open Joe corpsman demands 30 minutes on the *** kicking machine.
You folks are being led down the yellow brick road towards a nickel rendering facility operated as a pyramid scheme by **** directed by Rat ******** with rat bastard filling. I love this game!
Ask me about Lawnsteel, go on, I dare you.
Roy

[Pee Wee]

Ok, who woke up Evil Roy, just for you guys that don't know, Evil Roy he is the father of lawn steel, I wish I had gotten involved in the International lawn steel assoc. sooner than I did but am delighted that I was blessed to get involved now. We smelted down the last of our range lead today. I think we have around 2000 lbs. well give the amount when we weigh it. Just two more days and I get to play "The Game". I love this game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

The Arbitrary Targets, for purposes of specificity, are:

Hearts, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
Diamonds, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
Spades, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
Clubs, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
"QUITS", twelve of them, usually numbered. They are rectangular tombstone looking targets.

It's common, when we run out of these targets during a game, to return to shooting down the remainder of the lollipops, as Arbitrary Targets.

It's sometimes allowed, when ruled by the line judge at the beginning of the game, to use lollipops as Arbitrary Targets right away. This is a bane to new shooters who are having trouble getting their two lollipops down (to get in the game), since the lollipops are their only path to getting in the game. That's what Roy refers to in his earlier dialog. "Rat ********" are a term of endearment defining those who seek to inflict the highest level of difficuilty on others, for the purpose of extracting nickels, Mary Jane candies, etc.

I always bring fresh roasted and brewed coffee from home (for myself). They have yet to call for payment in doughnuts!

Oh, and before I forget..... Last Wednesday (New Years Eve Day), Roy ended up with a cardboard nickel looking thing on his table. He kept incredulously looking at me as if I had anything to do with it. Not guilty. Neither am I guilty of passing him pennies recently, during the heat of a game. We do save and pass very dark and dirty nickels to Honest Rob, who hates them with a passion..... He recently proudly announced that he tumbled all the crappy nickels we had been giving him in his vibratory tumbler, to shine them up..... Hahaha... the fun never ends......

BTW, refer to the earlier post with the full rules of the game, and the list of all targets.

[DukeInFlorida]

Just a follow up (since we haven't had one in a while.)

Gator Tommy came down from near Jacksonville, and shot with us. Took him about one and a half games to get his gun tuned for the game and then he started shooting well. He did OK for the remainder of the morning. We had a bunch of shooters that Wednesday, and we took turns sitting out, so that Tommy could shoot all four games. He said that he came great distance to shoot, and we sure allowed him to trade nickels. He hasn't checked in since he shot with us. I trust that he had fun.

Last Monday we started assembling a new 10' X 12' shed for storing our lawnchairs and tables near the shooting area we use. Turned out to be QUITE a job! It was a metal shed in a box, kind of like an Erector set, with millions of pieces, a complex set of instructions, and millions of fasteners. The shed is designed to sit atop a platform or deck or concrete pad. We hadn't planned for that. One of the guys has a Kubota tractor with a bucket, and we spent a bit of time hauling soggy wet mud to build up a platform. The location for the shed is already in a low and wet location. The mud made conditions horrible, with boots getting sucked off our feet. I threw out my back, hefting some of the mud off of a trailer. OUCH. The day ended early when 3" of hard rain closed the doors on our efforts, and making the mud pie game even worse.
We continued the construction on Tuesday. The going was slow at best. By the end of the day, we managed to get most of the roof panels in place.
Wednesday was the next day, and the guys all decided to shoot our normal lawnsteel game. A new shooter came, but quit mid game. He had some sort of impression that we were too good for him. He sat and watched in amazement as steel target by steel target fell. I had discussion on Thursday morning with an RSO buddy of his that came by the club. I suggested that he have his friend, george, come by and try again. I offered the same offering thatwe always extend: "Come and try the game. We'll even lend you a proper gun, and ammo that is tuned for the gun and the game". He said that he would talk to his friend. Hope he, and Gator Tommy, return.

Yesterday, I helped Easy Eddie tune up his new Dillon 550b press, and before you knew it, he was turning out excellent ammo. We tested our mutual Chrony Master Beta chronographs. (Mine has been hit a couple more times than his has). There seems to be a discrepancy between the two. The techie at Chrony suggested that we test fire some .22 LR ammo, known to be at 1250 feet per second. Eddie's tested at almost the right pace, but my chrono was showing about 50 feet per second slower. So, I determined that I am sending mine back to Chrony to get re-calibrated. 810 feet per second is the target speed for the lawn steel game. It allows the bullets to hit front and back row of steel using the same aim point. So, it's important to know how the load development is going.

Lastly, we're beginning work on a new web site, and will be accumulating a mailing list. Anyone who wants to get added, for receiving newsletters, shoot dates, tournaments, etc... please get me your email address via PM. I'll add you to the list.

That's the update. Hope to see anyone who wants to join us at the range.
A work party was held today, with only three workers. The shed is still not complete.

[Michael J. Spangler]

i'm jealous
i can say that i've seen duke's work first hand. If he gets his grip on lawn steel (or lawn steel gets its grip on him??) he's going to push to make it the best he can and bring in tons of new people.
he did amazing things for new and veteran casters in the new england area while he was here. i'ms sure he's going to put his usual effort in to lawn steel and casting down there.
keep it up guys. i love reading about the game