The real stuff

[mooman76]

I clean right away with any powder I use so more or less corrrosive is not really a factor.

[Swampman]

And that is what you should do but Pyrodex is no more corrosive than black powder. This myth has been debunked many times.

[waksupi]

And that is what you should do but Pyrodex is no more corrosive than black powder. This myth has been debunked many times.

Wrong. I don't know where you are getting you information, but they are full of beans. Probably from marketers of Pyrodex.
I am a ML shooter, and gun builder for over thirty years. I have seen first hand ruined firearms from the fake powders.
I live in a dry climate, and you can get away with not cleaning a black powder rifle for several days. I have seen people at shoots use Pyrodex, and very visible corrosion is apparent over night if the rifle is not cleaned. They always have the same response, "I was shooting Pyrodex, you don't need to clean it!"
A rifle came into the shop that had had Pyrodex used, and not cleaned. Breech was nearly impossible to remove, and bore was frosted and pitted from end to end.
We have done experiments with flashing Pyrodex and BP on bare metal, and the Pyrodex was definitely more corrosive.
Feel free to ruin the barrel of your gun if you wish.

[Swampman]

I've heard these tales for years and know that Pyrodex is no more corrosive than black powder. A muzzleloader must be cleaned the same day unless you use Blackhorn 209. I've been at this for 35 years. I'll keep shooting Pyrodex for $5.00 a can. I get it from Walmart at the end of hunting season.

[waksupi]

I've heard these tales for years and know that Pyrodex is no more corrosive than black powder. A muzzleloader must be cleaned the same day unless you use Blackhorn 209. I've been at this for 35 years. I'll keep shooting Pyrodex for $5.00 a can. I get it from Walmart at the end of hunting season.

Well, I'm glad people won't be believing what you are saying here. You have misinformation you insist on clinging to. This board is known for putting out the correct information on various shooting aspects, and that statement is wrong on several levels.
Potassium percholate, and potassium chloride will do a number on your barrel. I do hope you are the only one who will be ruining firearms, and others are sensible enough to pay attention to chemical reaction.

[Southron Sanders]

With the exception of Pyrodex, has anyone ever noticed how fast these "subsititute" black powders come and go? AS for BP, keep the old Coke slogan in mind: "There is Nothing Like the REAL THING!"

[DIRT Farmer]

I think the thing with the subs is the next big thing. Next season some one will be putting out an ad for shoot futher and faster, and their brand will last the deer season. It amazed me when I walked into a big box store a couple of yesrs back and saw the deer hunters special, 5 sabots, 5 bullets tiny jar with 15 pellets 5 209 primers a small bottle of cleaner small pack of cleaning patches and all in a bubble pack. I guess the sights are good for ever.

[Flinchrock]

An old wives tale with no factual basis.

Trust me,,,Swampman knows everything there is to know, or ever was to know, about black or fake powder shooting, and will tell you in short sentences EXACTLY how to do everything! But,,,pyrodex IS a lot more corrosive than real black. Unless you clean the holy behoochie out of your bore with every modern solvent known to mankind after every shot!!! plain ol' black just needs water! As has been said, drilling nipples is not a great idea, no matter what you pour down the barrel, if ya gotta do that, something else is wrong!! Real Black is not that hard to come by, and has been working fine for a long time. When you see people asking if this or that works as good as real black, well, what else do you really need to know?

[george1980]

plus 1 on everyone but swampman , ive been shooting muzzle loaders since i was 8 years old, and agree that not a single one of the subs will shoot as well as good ole black , and flinchrock put it best by saying " Unless you clean the holy behoochie out of your bore with every modern solvent known to mankind after every shot!!! , now for some of the newer subs such as the buckhorn 209 and shockys gold they are good things to stay away from in my opinion . they are designed for inline muzzleloaders, are hard to ignite ( the 209 is in the name for a reason ) and give fairly high pressures that might not be safe in some rifles and are expensive , the hazmat and price of 5 lbs of black is less than you will spend on 5 lbs of the subs , if prices in your area compare with here

[Swampman]

You sucumbed to the stuff you hear at blackpowder shoots by the graybeards. Your right I do know everything about black powder and the subs. Pyrodex cleans up and shoots exactly like Goex 3F in a caplock. You can't tell the difference. No mods are needed to the nipple.

[northmn]

The source I quoted is a chemist that is pretty knowledgeable, I would believe him. If you want to deny that go ahead but I would suggest others new to the game do not. When I tried Pyrodex in my traditional BP percussion it not would hangfire but it would not stay on the paper at 100 yards. 3f GOEX was very accurate and would fire reliably. As the real stuff is less expensive even at mail order prices as George said. No reason to use the stuff anyway.

Northmn

[Swampman]

A good read

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...odex_Corrosion

[waksupi]

A good read

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...odex_Corrosion

You may want to read the rest of the tread there, not just the post put out by the sales manager.

[Swampman]

I read it all and he's not the sales manager. I just figured you guys might want to know that NASA and the DOD debunked the oft repeated perclorate stuff.

[waksupi]

I read it all and he's not the sales manager. I just figured you guys might want to know that NASA and the DOD debunked the oft repeated perclorate stuff.

Mike Daly

Customer Satisfaction Manager

The Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants

[shunka]

I know the Mad Monk personally and have corresponded with him for
over ten years. He is a chemist who documents his work and states
only facts. Often those facts make various corporations very unhappy
and those corporations will resort to amazing tactics to try to silence
the truth.

Waksupi is absolutely correct in the information he has related
regarding the corrosiveness of Pyrodex and the Mad Monks test results.

I searched the web extensively and I found no actual documentation of NASA actually testing the corrosion effects of pyrodex. The only references I have found to NASA and pyrodex refer to the use of pyrodex instead of BP for ejection charges in model and amature rockets. Not guns. the use is due to unavailability of BP.

Nor have I found any documentation of DoD testing Pyrodex with regards
to corrosiveness.

In fact I found far more references to Daly's allegations and Daly's own posts, than I found from NASA or the DoD.

If Mike Daly can actually post references to actual documents, especially
with actual document numbers, I would be happy to read them.

Mr Daly has a well known reputation for distortion and fabrications.

It is a well known tactic for various companies to employ mouthpieces
to scan web forums for any discussion of their products, then to
jump in and "spin the conversation" or simply spew lies concerning
said products.

Mike Daly is one of several marketing mouthpieces who try to dump their
shinola as "facts" all over the various boards. On occasion they try
to silence critics with threats. In the past I have run several off of other
forums.

I am rather surprised at swampman's continuation in the face of facts.

It is one thing to opine "well, I still like this product".
It is quite another to front for a well known mouthpiece.

for the record, I use both Pyrodex and BP. I prefer BP.

I am very familiar with the shortcomings of Pyrodex, including difficulty to ignite and corrosiveness; I use it sparingly and clean thoroughly and quickly.
It is better than "no powder" and readily available in stores over-the-counter.

But BP *is* better.

BTW I *did* find numerous mentions of issues with the Perchlorates as found in Pyrodex as potential exacerbating factors during cleanups of EPA toxic waste sites.

yhs
shunka

[Hanshi]

A few years ago I had three cans of Pyrodex given to me by a friend. I use black exclusively but did try the Pyrodex in a .45 Colt. The main thing I noticed was a huge velocity variation, more than I've ever experienced with black. I never throw anything away so will keep the Pyrodex "just in case". I can't speak on corrosion but as I mostly shoot flints, black is what I use.

[Swampman]

It's a well known tactic ro repeat what you heard around the campfire as fact when there are no test what so ever to show that it is. When used exactly like black power there is no difference. Both are corrosive, and both clean up with water. At $5.00 a lb I prefer Pyrodex.

[northmn]

They are not talking about campfire talk but tests done by a professional as Shunka mentioned. At $5 a pound Pyrodex might be shootable, but not in my flintlocks as it doesn't reliably go off, and not in my percussion rifle as it really is not all that accurate, although some have had better luck with it. Most stores selling Pyrodex charge more for it than I can get BP anyway (far more than $5 so I do not use the stuff).

DP

[Swampman]

I've examined the tests by Shunka. They've been bebunked.