cast bullet business

[phil3333]

you think you could make money with the magma commercial machines
wonder how much per bullet

[deltaenterprizes]

Try doing a search for "commercial casting" this has been covered on this forum about a dozen times.
I was a commercial caster for 12 years and have posted answers a couple of times as well as a couple members.

[phil3333]

thanks i will search

[fredj338]

The biggest issue is getting a good supply of affordable alloy. The Magma machine is pretty pricey, but the fastest way to get a large amount of bullets. Can you make a living, having done it as a hobby business, I doubt it. The profit margin on 1K bullets is pretty narrow unless you are getting free alloy.

[Adam10mm]

And recall it's the culmination of a lot of different areas that will dictate whether you are profitable or not. Having the right equipment (that works for your business) is only a small portion of it.

[KYCaster]

Somebody else asked the same question a few days ago. Must be something going around.

Is it possible to make any money manufacturing cast boolits....Yes it is.

With one Magma Bullet Master casting machine and one Magma Size Master lube/sizer it is possible to earn about $12,000.00 per year. Along with a good air compressor and other equipment required, at current new prices, that's at least $25,000 invested. Buy a truck load of alloy (20 tons at ~$1.10) to get the best rate and your investment is now $70,000.

That 40,000 lbs of lead will net about $120,000 in sales at current retail prices, but you'll be making boolits and won't have enough time to deal directly with walk in customers so you'll need to find retail outlets to take care of sales, so knock 25% off that 120K for the wholesale discount.

Depending on how efficiently you use your time, you could earn from $6.00 to $10.00 per hour.

Call your local SCORE (Service Corps Of Retired Executives) office or SBDC (Small Business Development Center). They have all kinds of info to help you estimate start up costs, pricing, marketing, break even point and lots of other stuff you never thought of. Fill out the paper work (don't cheat...if you don't know the answer, research it till you do) then go back and have them take a look at it. Then listen very carefully to what they have to say about your venture.

OK, that's the short version. Of course you can start up much cheaper than that. You can also realize much less income. You can also spend LOTS of time scrounging lead when you could have used that time making boolits. If you spend a day to go and get 1000 lbs of WW at thirty cents a pound and another day plus three bottles of propane to render it into usable ingots then figure your labor at $10.00 per hour, you come out about $580 ahead of the cost of foundry alloy. So at your 10% margin, you've earned about sixty bucks for your two days of labor.

Now, compare that to the cost of foundry alloy and you'll see that by using 40,000 lbs of scrap at an average price of $.30/lb you can increase your net income by $23,200.00. ($580 X 40) WOW! But........you're working with 10% margin so you still earned thirty bucks a day. And you just worked an extra 80 days this year.

Also consider that in order to use reclaimed material to maintain this level of production, you'll have to scrounge 1000 lbs of scrap per week, week in and week out. That is entirely possible...........but not at $.30/lb. If you pay spot price of $.60-.80 then you knock your hourly income down to less than minimum wage.

Still think scrap lead is the way to go? That 20 tons of WW will have about 4500 lbs of waste. About 3900 lbs of that is steel clips. You have to get rid of it somehow and you can't put it in the landfill (it has lead in it). At current scrap price you'll get $190 for it and you've spent three or four days this year dealing with it.....<$10.00/hr. Range scrap is even worse. 25-30% waste is not at all unusual and because it has steel jackets and steel shot in it, it brings the same $195/ton as any other steel.....another minimum wage job.

So that pretty much covers the economics of it. That still leaves some other factors to discuss. I've tried to think of some way to say this without sounding like a jerk, but I'm at a loss.......so here goes.........

What makes you think you know enough about cast boolits to make a consistent product that your customers will be happy with? If a customer comes to you with a complaint can you diagnose the problem and suggest a solution? Can you honestly tell your customer that you know more about cast boolits than he does?

How many different lube formulas have you used? Can you tell your customer why your lube is as good or better than the lube that your competitor uses? Is your lube suitable for your customer's application? Have you used it at 400 fps?......2500 fps?.......how are you going to advise him if you haven't tried it yourself?

OK......this is kinda turning into a rant. Back to the original question....it is possible to make money manufacturing cast bullets.........but.......keep your day job. It is extremely difficult to MAKE A LIVING manufacturing cast bullets. If you have the knowledge and ability to make boolits for profit, then you have the skills to do many other things that can be much more profitable.

Take it for what it's worth........been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt.


Jerry

[cricco]

Somebody else asked the same question a few days ago. Must be something going around.

Is it possible to make any money manufacturing cast boolits....Yes it is.

With one Magma Bullet Master casting machine and one Magma Size Master lube/sizer it is possible to earn about $12,000.00 per year. Along with a good air compressor and other equipment required, at current new prices, that's at least $25,000 invested. Buy a truck load of alloy (20 tons at ~$1.10) to get the best rate and your investment is now $70,000.

That 40,000 lbs of lead will net about $120,000 in sales at current retail prices, but you'll be making boolits and won't have enough time to deal directly with walk in customers so you'll need to find retail outlets to take care of sales, so knock 25% off that 120K for the wholesale discount.

Depending on how efficiently you use your time, you could earn from $6.00 to $10.00 per hour.

Call your local SCORE (Service Corps Of Retired Executives) office or SBDC (Small Business Development Center). They have all kinds of info to help you estimate start up costs, pricing, marketing, break even point and lots of other stuff you never thought of. Fill out the paper work (don't cheat...if you don't know the answer, research it till you do) then go back and have them take a look at it. Then listen very carefully to what they have to say about your venture.

OK, that's the short version. Of course you can start up much cheaper than that. You can also realize much less income. You can also spend LOTS of time scrounging lead when you could have used that time making boolits. If you spend a day to go and get 1000 lbs of WW at thirty cents a pound and another day plus three bottles of propane to render it into usable ingots then figure your labor at $10.00 per hour, you come out about $580 ahead of the cost of foundry alloy. So at your 10% margin, you've earned about sixty bucks for your two days of labor.

Now, compare that to the cost of foundry alloy and you'll see that by using 40,000 lbs of scrap at an average price of $.30/lb you can increase your net income by $23,200.00. ($580 X 40) WOW! But........you're working with 10% margin so you still earned thirty bucks a day. And you just worked an extra 80 days this year.

Also consider that in order to use reclaimed material to maintain this level of production, you'll have to scrounge 1000 lbs of scrap per week, week in and week out. That is entirely possible...........but not at $.30/lb. If you pay spot price of $.60-.80 then you knock your hourly income down to less than minimum wage.

Still think scrap lead is the way to go? That 20 tons of WW will have about 4500 lbs of waste. About 3900 lbs of that is steel clips. You have to get rid of it somehow and you can't put it in the landfill (it has lead in it). At current scrap price you'll get $190 for it and you've spent three or four days this year dealing with it.....<$10.00/hr. Range scrap is even worse. 25-30% waste is not at all unusual and because it has steel jackets and steel shot in it, it brings the same $195/ton as any other steel.....another minimum wage job.

So that pretty much covers the economics of it. That still leaves some other factors to discuss. I've tried to think of some way to say this without sounding like a jerk, but I'm at a loss.......so here goes.........

What makes you think you know enough about cast boolits to make a consistent product that your customers will be happy with? If a customer comes to you with a complaint can you diagnose the problem and suggest a solution? Can you honestly tell your customer that you know more about cast boolits than he does?

How many different lube formulas have you used? Can you tell your customer why your lube is as good or better than the lube that your competitor uses? Is your lube suitable for your customer's application? Have you used it at 400 fps?......2500 fps?.......how are you going to advise him if you haven't tried it yourself?

OK......this is kinda turning into a rant. Back to the original question....it is possible to make money manufacturing cast bullets.........but.......keep your day job. It is extremely difficult to MAKE A LIVING manufacturing cast bullets. If you have the knowledge and ability to make boolits for profit, then you have the skills to do many other things that can be much more profitable.

Take it for what it's worth........been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt.


Jerry

Excellent post! Thank you for that. You just saved me from asking too many questions. LOL

[jtownguy]

Somebody else asked the same question a few days ago. Must be something going around.

Is it possible to make any money manufacturing cast boolits....Yes it is.

With one Magma Bullet Master casting machine and one Magma Size Master lube/sizer it is possible to earn about $12,000.00 per year. Along with a good air compressor and other equipment required, at current new prices, that's at least $25,000 invested. Buy a truck load of alloy (20 tons at ~$1.10) to get the best rate and your investment is now $70,000.

That 40,000 lbs of lead will net about $120,000 in sales at current retail prices, but you'll be making boolits and won't have enough time to deal directly with walk in customers so you'll need to find retail outlets to take care of sales, so knock 25% off that 120K for the wholesale discount.

Depending on how efficiently you use your time, you could earn from $6.00 to $10.00 per hour.

Call your local SCORE (Service Corps Of Retired Executives) office or SBDC (Small Business Development Center). They have all kinds of info to help you estimate start up costs, pricing, marketing, break even point and lots of other stuff you never thought of. Fill out the paper work (don't cheat...if you don't know the answer, research it till you do) then go back and have them take a look at it. Then listen very carefully to what they have to say about your venture.

OK, that's the short version. Of course you can start up much cheaper than that. You can also realize much less income. You can also spend LOTS of time scrounging lead when you could have used that time making boolits. If you spend a day to go and get 1000 lbs of WW at thirty cents a pound and another day plus three bottles of propane to render it into usable ingots then figure your labor at $10.00 per hour, you come out about $580 ahead of the cost of foundry alloy. So at your 10% margin, you've earned about sixty bucks for your two days of labor.

Now, compare that to the cost of foundry alloy and you'll see that by using 40,000 lbs of scrap at an average price of $.30/lb you can increase your net income by $23,200.00. ($580 X 40) WOW! But........you're working with 10% margin so you still earned thirty bucks a day. And you just worked an extra 80 days this year.

Also consider that in order to use reclaimed material to maintain this level of production, you'll have to scrounge 1000 lbs of scrap per week, week in and week out. That is entirely possible...........but not at $.30/lb. If you pay spot price of $.60-.80 then you knock your hourly income down to less than minimum wage.

Still think scrap lead is the way to go? That 20 tons of WW will have about 4500 lbs of waste. About 3900 lbs of that is steel clips. You have to get rid of it somehow and you can't put it in the landfill (it has lead in it). At current scrap price you'll get $190 for it and you've spent three or four days this year dealing with it.....<$10.00/hr. Range scrap is even worse. 25-30% waste is not at all unusual and because it has steel jackets and steel shot in it, it brings the same $195/ton as any other steel.....another minimum wage job.

So that pretty much covers the economics of it. That still leaves some other factors to discuss. I've tried to think of some way to say this without sounding like a jerk, but I'm at a loss.......so here goes.........

What makes you think you know enough about cast boolits to make a consistent product that your customers will be happy with? If a customer comes to you with a complaint can you diagnose the problem and suggest a solution? Can you honestly tell your customer that you know more about cast boolits than he does?

How many different lube formulas have you used? Can you tell your customer why your lube is as good or better than the lube that your competitor uses? Is your lube suitable for your customer's application? Have you used it at 400 fps?......2500 fps?.......how are you going to advise him if you haven't tried it yourself?

OK......this is kinda turning into a rant. Back to the original question....it is possible to make money manufacturing cast bullets.........but.......keep your day job. It is extremely difficult to MAKE A LIVING manufacturing cast bullets. If you have the knowledge and ability to make boolits for profit, then you have the skills to do many other things that can be much more profitable.

Take it for what it's worth........been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt.


Jerry

20 years ago I had an acquaintance who was in that business and ending up killing himself...I always thought it was because of personal problems which no doubt it was but he also owed everyone huge amounts of money....mmmmm rather depressing and I hope I did not discourage anyone...just thinking out loud. Might be a good business, I don't know.

[Edubya]

[QUOTE=KYCaster;876073]Somebody else asked the same question a few days ago. Must be something going around.

Is it possible to make any money manufacturing cast boolits....Yes it is.

That was an excellent, minor dissertation. Not a rant. Thank you KYCaster.

EW

[Adam10mm]

Yup, on every forum lately I see a lot of guys wanting to start an ammo or bullet business. Cheers, guys. It's a tough industry. Wish you the best.

[docone31]

You know, any business is just like KyCaster's post. Any. My jewelery business, I was homeless three times before I got it right, or at least semi functional.
You gotta believe, and if a person thinks it is easy, they are doomed to learn it over and over.
I am lucky. My wife shares my interest. We built this one together. She was an insurance agent for years. I just knew she had what it took. My ex had wiped me out, her ex had wiped her out. We built it from the bottom up.
A business like a casting business, the person who starts it works to the grave. Their projeny get the benefits. My business is the same. Neither of our kids wants anything to do with how hard we work. I do not blame them.
However, no one can lay us off. We might go out of business slowly, but we will never get laid off, nor get paid while we are laid off.
No work, no eat.
If a person can handle that, then they can do almost anything.

[mpmarty]

"No Work No Eat" that makes a lot of sense to me. Too bad it isn't a national theme anymore.

[phil3333]

thanks for the replies, esp. kycaster, i have an appreciation and knowledge of starting and running
a business having just sold one that i built from just the wife and i to over 20 employees.
that said the truth is my knowledge of the bullet and ammunition business is not what it should be
i am a pretty fast learner, and i am not trying to make a million bucks out of this endeavor.

having sold my other business i have investment capital and would like to do something with my
time that i enjoy. i am a life long shooter,hunter and tinker of firearms machinery etc.
so i thinking what the hell i might give this a try

[HORNET]

As often as this topic comes up, it might make a good stickie.

[Adam10mm]

Phil, learn about the ammunition industry first, then learn about manufacturing ammunition, then decide if it's right for you. Hook up with the guys at Silver State Armory. They offer consulting. Take advantage of it.

[walker77]

I grew up in the plastics industry, and i have always wondered why you couldnt use an injection molding machine and use that for casting. You would have to have a custom mold made. I dont remember how hot the heating bands got on the barrel. Seems like we typically ran them around 450 degrees. If it were plastic parts that was the same size as a bullet, you could easily make 200 in less than a minute. On troublesome parts, we would hook the mold up to a chiller to keep the mold at a constant temp. Or you could hook it up to heating rods to keep it hot. Im sure there is a reason why it cant be done, since no one is using that kind of machine for it. My dad and i still have 2 molding machines in storage and when ever i do some casting i always wonder why not?

Here is a rough image of a machine from wikipedia.

[HORNET]

The biggest problem in trying to injection mold boolits is the cost of the molds at the precision level necessary. I've run molding machine barrel temps up around 650 degrees without much problem and thixotropic (metal slush molding) techniques could be applied but the cost of feedstock and maintenance would be killer and somebody with a Magma would eat you alive on prices while you're trying to recover the 1000's of dollars you've sunk into 1 mold. Spin casting has also been mentioned before, but also doesn't seem to be economically viable when you start looking at actual production costs.

[walker77]

Well, true. But when you already have a machine sitting around collecting dust, it makes ya start wondering. Im sure there is more to it then what it sounds. Injecting it under pressure will probably lead to all kinds of trouble. We could just make plastic bullets!

[HORNET]

Ever see any Speer T-38's? Plastic bullet & plastic case for indoor shooting with primer only as a less messy replacement for wax bullets.

[walker77]

Ive heard of it, never seen it. I didnt know they only had a primer, i thought they had a light load