444 silhouette gun?

[glen ring]

I am looking for a new Marlin for Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette. My 38-55 does well, but my wife wants it. I'm looking at a 444 marlin and there is a very good selection of cast bullets, the guns are relatively cheap, the case is straight and I should be able to work up a 1000fps to 1200 fps cast bullet load. I need at least 2 inch groups at 100 yards. Have any of you used the 444 in CLA and what are your light loads?

[6pt-sika]

I used a 434-207GC mold that came from a group buy here pushed with XMP5744 and it sis okay on the rams at 200 meters .

The Lyman 429215 SWC GC isn't a bad bullet for this either .

Personally if I were you and seriouse about being "competitive" I'd look for a nice 336 in 32 Special or 30-30 . Your scores will most likely increase .

[S.R.Custom]

The load is the easy part. The trick will be finding a .444 lever gun that will shoot less than 2 MOA. The barrels simply are not made to that level of quality. (The best I've seen is an old Marlin MG rifle that would shoot to 1.75" if I was lucky. But even then, that was off a bench with the Leupold dialed up to 9x.)

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have Marlins and Winchesters in 30/30 ( I somehow got talked out of my 375 Big Bore) and marlins in 444 and 45/70. My 444 is a recent one to enjoy the benefits of the ballard rifling and faster twist, which I feel would be needed to use heavier boolits. If it is not cowboy shooting one of the new XLR shiny objects in 30/30 (or 338marlin maybe ) might be up to the job. 2" at 100 yards is a big ask for most levers (pretty much a big ask for any I reckon).

Maybe a second hand gun with a quality replacement barrel might be worth looking at. The easy way out would be to share with your wife or get another the same.

What are the other competitiors using? That may be worth examining.

[6pt-sika]

From the bench with a scope 2" isn't a big deal .

Now two inches offhand with open sights is another thing !

But I don't rate a rifle from offhand EVER .

In the 16 or so old 444's I own I think 2" groups at 100 yards not that big a deal with any of them .

As to the heavier bullets I've used up to 375 grain bullets in the slow twist Micro barrels with very good results .

[Four Fingers of Death]

In the 16 or so old 444's I own

Crikey! I thought I had problems!!!!

Thats interesting, I never really tried heavy boolits when I had my MG 444. My recent Ballard rifled 444 absolutely loves Hornady 265Gn factory ammo. I would never have bought it, but a box came with the gun. You get a little stab of a headache everytime you shoot it off the bench though. If I wasn't into casting and reloading, that load would do anything I wanted and it punches one big ragged hole in the target at 100yds.

[Marlin Junky]

For Lever Action Silhouette you need to be able to take down a 200m Ram that weighs about 50 pounds or more. You're going to ring 'em with the loads you're talking about and with suitable .444 loads you may not like your gun much after a 60 round match. My 30-30 with RCBS 30-180FN at 196-199 grains ready to fly takes the Rams down even with a foot shot. The last time I won a 60 round match, two of my Rams fell forward. If you want a straight walled case, go with the 45-70. My shooting partner uses 400+ grain boolits in his 45-70 and has pretty good luck taking down Rams when the boolits are started out at 1200-1300 fps but my 24" 30-30 is actually more reliable (and easier to shoot because of the reduced trajectory) with not-so-great hits. If you're a lever action fan who likes the silhouette game, I don't see how you can beat a long barreled 30-30.

MJ

[Tony65x55]

2" groups are not much of a problem for most .444's at 100 yards. I've owned several (although not as many as 6pt.) and all of them would group better than that. Don't sell it short, it's a very accurate caliber.

[crabo]

If you're a lever action fan who likes the silhouette game, I don't see how you can beat a long barreled 30-30.

MJ

What are the models that can be had with a long barrel in 30-30? I'm looking because I am in the group buy for a mold. Makes sense doesn't it?

[6pt-sika]

What are the models that can be had with a long barrel in 30-30? I'm looking because I am in the group buy for a mold. Makes sense doesn't it?

In my somewhat biased opinion the old style Marlin 336A is the way to go if you can find one !

These had 24" barrels , 2/3 rd's mags and NO barrel bands . Kinda a blued walnut version of the 336XLR . Also the 336XLR in 30-30 or 35 REM wouldn't be a bad choice either .

And of course if you could possibly find one of the semi recent manufacture 336CB's in 30-30 . I used one of those one year and it did very well on silhouette (and deer) . The 336CB has a 24" octagon barrel with a full length mag and NO barrel bands .

[Marlin Junky]

What are the models that can be had with a long barrel in 30-30? I'm looking because I am in the group buy for a mold. Makes sense doesn't it?

Early 336A's and the current XLR's are 24" models. The square bolts are also good but my loads are probably a bit too much for them unless they're backed down to about 1950 fps. I'm sure a good solid body hit without a significant head wind would take down a Ram with such a load... use something like H414 with a 200 grain boolit at 1950 fps and you won't be disappointed. For my round bolt guns I'm using 33-34 grains of H-380 and a Federal 210 for over 2100 fps. If you need to go with a little milder load try 34-35 grains of 414 with a WLR.

MJ

[crabo]

I found a new Winchester 66 30-30 with a 26" barrel for $600 out the door. I hate the gold. It felt good. How hard would the solid curved buttplate kick?

http://www.chuckhawks.com/win_centennial_66.htm

[Marlin Junky]

I found a new Winchester 66 30-30 with a 26" barrel for $600 out the door. I hate the gold. It felt good. How hard would the solid curved buttplate kick?

http://www.chuckhawks.com/win_centennial_66.htm

Good choice but the twist is slower so if you use the same 200-ish grain boolits at reduced velocity for the closer targets, I can't guarantee accuracy. In my experience Winchester barrel dimensions are noticeable tighter than the old Marlins, so getting a nice round 30-180FN to fit might be easier. I don't know about the crescent butt plate being more uncomfortable than my hard rubber shotgun style butt plate... it might even be more comfortable if it fits you properly.

MJ

[glen ring]

I shoot a 38-55 Marlin Cowboy , 260 grain hunter's supply bullet, and it's powered by Unique powder. Velocity is probably around 1100fps. These rounds will always take down the 200 yard ram and Accuracy is around two inches at 100 yards.

I think with the proper load development a 260 grain bullet at about 1100 to 1200 fps out of a 444 would be a great silhouette gun.

The 444 is more versatile than the 38-55, has a fantastic bullet selection and the blue Marlin 444 just looks good.

With proper ammo you could go from cheap cast bullets and target practice to Leverloution ammo and any big game.

I've never owned a 444, but I've found an older Marlin in a pawn shop and I'm really wanting it.

[Joneser]

I shoot a 38-55 Marlin Cowboy , 260 grain hunter's supply bullet, and it's powered by Unique powder. Velocity is probably around 1100fps. These rounds will always take down the 200 yard ram and Accuracy is around two inches at 100 yards.

I think with the proper load development a 260 grain bullet at about 1100 to 1200 fps out of a 444 would be a great silhouette gun.

The 444 is more versatile than the 38-55, has a fantastic bullet selection and the blue Marlin 444 just looks good.

With proper ammo you could go from cheap cast bullets and target practice to Leverloution ammo and any big game.

I've never owned a 444, but I've found an older Marlin in a pawn shop and I'm really wanting it.

Better buy it before 6pt-sika does !!

[IcerUSA]

If the 444 is what you want , I'd go for it , you can always sell it if it don't work out , but you ain't going to get mine . hehe I would also look for a boolit in the 280gn area and push it about 1400 to 1600 . Just my 2 cents worth ,

Keith

[6pt-sika]

Better buy it before 6pt-sika does !!

If it wasn't made in 1967 or 1972 (or LNIB and cheap) I don't need it

[6pt-sika]

I would however be intrested to know what the old 444 looks like and what year it was made if you purchase it !

Not trying to get it from you just intrested to know what it looks like since I've been accumulating these things

[6pt-sika]

If you buy that 444 , see if you can get in on the late NOE group buy for the Ranch Dog style 432-265GC mold !

Thats one fine bullet for deer I can attest to that

[dgslyr]

I've used my 24" barreled 444 for silhouette's a few times.I used RCBS 240 SWC gas check and 17 grs. of Unique at about 1650 fps.All the rams I hit fell.Here 's a group with that load at 100 yds.