Why Knock Lee Equipment??

[gefiltephish]

So an add on to my "Two cents" post.

This morning I called Lee while on the way to work, hands free don't you know, gal answered and said she'd handle the request for a new lever on my auto prime and get it out same day.

Never once was it suggested I was inept or a retard and I appreciate that! I also didn't get the run around about a sales reciept some thing I also appreciate....

<This turned out to be a much longer response than I intended. Sorry. >

I had about the same experience, mine was only a few months old. I was never asked about when I purchased it. Perusing the various forums, you'll find that it is so common for this part to break. So, it's really no surprise they replace it no questions asked. Mine took no effort to break at all, even with my girly-man sized hands. Lee replaced it, and I purchased two more levers so I wouldn't be stuck during the *next* down time.

The only reason I purchased an auto prime in the first place was due to extreme frustration with priming on the Loadmaster. After about a year of cursing, tweaking, and more cursing, I'm back to priming on the press. Though priming wasn't the only issue I had. It can be a truly frustrating piece of equipment to use until finally whipped into shape. Even now I can't help but expect it to screw up at nearly every pull of the lever.

Though I lust after an LNL, I simply can't afford one. When finances permit, I may actually get another Loadmaster so I can have one set up for small primers and cases, and the other one for large. I may be like the high school geek who has to settle for the ugly girl, but at least she's cheap and can cook when forced to. To reduce frustration and the time it may take to get one working properly, I recommend the Loadmastervideos site.

I have 4 Lee 6 cav molds. ALL drop undersize with ww, even with an additional 2% tin. I've "Leemented" them to death. Using the same alloy (or 50/50 ww/range lead), and without any tinkering what-so-ever, my Mihec 45 hp mold drops as advertised (.453 minimum). I won't be buying any more Lee molds, I don't care how cheap they are.

FCD. I recently punched the carbide ring out of my 9mm, as I wanted to try .358's in my XD9. I didn't want the FCD to resize my boolits. It doesn't seem to shoot any better and still leads like mad, but at least the press cycles sooo much easier. I don't know why, but I've also found it much easier to set the crimp. Still, I've decided the FCD is unnecessary and won't be buying any more.

The Lee adjustable charge bar has a design flaw which is why it doesn't work correctly with smaller charges. Lee has been alerted to the issue and I believe acknowledged it, but I expect will never fix it at their end. It's easy enough to fix on your own though. At least it's cheap.

Surprise, my Lee pot leaks. After the paper clip routine stops working, it's time to lap the seat again. ALL of the screws keep loosening for some reason. Sometimes the "thermostat" doesn't work until I pull it out and "tinker" with it. I don't really do anything with it, but afterward it works again, but just barely. I figure on making one of those PID's some day. At least the Lee pot has a really cheap price.

The push through sizer is cheap and does what it's supposed to do, but I've had no luck with tumble lubing regardless of concoction.

That's been my experience with Lee. BUT, I have no experience with other equipment except a rockchucker with LNL bushings and one set of rcbs dies. In a nutshell, if you like cheap or can't afford better, and you like endless tinkering or at least don't mind, then Lee stuff is right up your alley. Most of it CAN be forced to work. Just don't be shocked if/when you get to the point where you're ready to sledgehammer it. If asked to describe Lee in a single word, it could only be "cheap".

[35remington]

Isn't it interesting that many report no problems, and every once in a while you get a guy that reports something goes wrong with everything he's purchased?

Makes one wonder a bit.

I'm in the category of those guys that have had good results with a wide range of Lee products.

[357shooter]

Isn't it interesting that many report no problems, and every once in a while you get a guy that reports something goes wrong with everything he's purchased?

Makes one wonder a bit.

I'm in the category of those guys that have had good results with a wide range of Lee products.

Ditto. The few problems I've had with the Turret auto/index and now my 1000 were all caused by.... me. LOL

The 1000 is very awesome, the only real problem is I notice the money spent on primers has gone way up. Then I figured out it's cause the press easily loads a ton of ammo!

[Recluse]

About the only two Lee products I've had issues with are the adjustable charge bar, which in my opinion is just junk, and the Lee Zip Drive, which is one helluva innovative idea--but made with materials not up to the task.

If Lee would re-engineer that Zip Drive with metal and a bit stouter spring, that would be one heckuva nice addendum on anyone's bench. Even if the re-engineering doubled the price, it would still be a steal.

Like most everyone else, I have a rainbow bench in terms of brand colors represented. I pretty much like everything I have--if I didn't, I would've sold/traded it long ago.

I also believe it comes down to managing expectations. Don't buy a $50 tool and expect it to work and last and perform like a $500 tool.

Secondly, some people use tools and some people abuse tools. Those in the former seem to get along just fine with Lee. Those in the latter are FORCED into the No BS Warranty category of tools.

But it's usually that same group that extols the wonderful virtues of "customer service" from some of the other brands. But I wonder why they need it if the (name the brand, any brand) product is so superior to every other brand color on the bench?

[Lee]

Send me your poor, your tired, your oppressed Lee stuff........I'll find 'em a good home

[matm0702]

I've used a bit of everything reloading and have had no problems with Lee. I use mainly their case guage/ trimmer tools with the Zip trimmer and universal shell holder. I also use their Dies particularly their collet dies ( wish they had one for 7.62x54 with a 303 mandrel). I started reloading with a Lee press but moved up to a RCBS rockchucker. No complaints with Lee stuff here.

Mike

[Limey]

Without Lee equipment a lot of folks could not afford to shoot....I know I could'nt....there is always too much month left at the end of the money.

Anything these days that enables and gets more folks legitimately shooting should be applauded, not slagged off.

Surely, any makers products that enables reloaders to produces safe and consistant ammo should be accepted gladly here.... I thought 'Cast Boolits' was a broad church.

For those here with enough money to buy what ever reloading equipment they desire, please enjoy your ability to do so....but why then slag off folks who can only afford Lee, or indeed Lee themselves?...would you rather they stop shooting?

I think they call that attitude eliteism.

Some of Lee's kit may not be the best but it sure is adequate.

Straight shootin',

Limey

[OBIII]

Hi,
2nd post. I started reloading in 1974 in California, with an RCBS Rockchucker, and a Lee Hand loading kit. Reloaded for about 4 years, moved back to the East coast and just started reloading again about 1 1/2 years ago. I bought a Lee Pro 1000 progressive press, and went through my share of problems getting it set up. In my opinion, the Lee Pro 1000 makes too many assumptions about the competence of the people buying it. Too many people are used to buying something that works flawlessly out of the box. The Lee website has some invaluable videos that show how to set up and maintain their equipment. If you are having problems, start there. I have also found a website that gives detailed information on how to disassemble and maintain a Lee Pro 1000. That website is as follows: http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/pro1000.html
For a lot of people (I know that none of you are included in this group), something out of the box should work without having to RTMFM. Anything that you buy is subject to a learning curve. Me, I'd rather spend less than $200.00 to be able to process in excess of 200 rounds per hour than spend $800.00 for something that allows me to do the same thing without a learning curve. How much would $600.00 buy in primers, powder, brass, and boolits?

Just my opinion,
Newbie
OBIII

[barrabruce]

Hmmm my 2 bobs worth.

I only cast for one rifle and mostly load for that now.
I'm happy with the lee products I own.

I use a lee clasic whack'em tool and have a couple of moulds. A chamfer tool and a few dippers.

With my cast I can't get much better than 1 and a bit MOA

But shooting my loaded Jacket stuff that goes down to 3/4 Moa
I can't ask for any better at that.

Sure a hummble mounted on me rusty triffle may help a tad and a few wind flags...n . a proper benchrest..but..not that much.

I'm not a benchrester ..but I am getting quite adequate accuracy and consistancy out of these simple tools.
How much would Big $$$ stuff would make a difference I'm not sure.

But for a poxy 'ol 30-30 It does me just fine the way it is.


I do use a scale accasionally to check my dippers/dipping or when making a load up with new powder etc.use a lee scoop or just knock one up.

I'm happy with my gear..and proud of owning it.

Iv'e only gotten in to casting caper to have a go at it and see what it/I can do.




After all the years of loading j stuff with most me guns I've had I couldn't get much better accuracy using a turrent press and weighing each charge. Then again I never shot benchrest / or varmeter/custom worked guns either.


Haven't had so much fun around here since grandma got her it caught in the mangler!!!


Newbie
Barra

[1hole]

I've read a LOT of comments made by people who have trouble with Lee tools and quite a few who also have trouble with every other brand as well; Hornady, RCBS, Lyman, Redding, Forster and, occasionally, Dillon! I've been doing this for 45+ years and have picked up a lot of used stuff, some of which was "no good", for cheap. I have dies from all of the current makers and more. I have several brands of presses, molds, trimmers, scales, etc., and it all works fine for me. Does make one wonder.

When I see someone posting from Mt. Olympus that "Lee is good enough for starters with low budgets", etc., I have to laugh. Used properly and with some understanding of its obvious limits I find no reason not to make the same average quality of ammo with Lee stuff as with any other common brand sold at any price.

[Ozark Howler]

My opinion of Lee is simple...Good...Bad...and the Ugly, it serves its purpose in many reloading situations, does not meet the requirements of many reloaders, and some of it is just not the greatest........but it has a place.

In my 47+ years of reloading, I have used some Lee products (and still do), some I traded or sold off, and some I never even considered purchasing.

Is Lee any different than the old Herters line of equipment which launched many new reloaders ?

[Cowboy T]

Wow, this thread's really hoppin'!

Someone said to me about Dillon vs. Lee, "I'd rather drive cross-country in a BMW than a Toyota Corolla, though both will get you there."

You know, that's how Honda became the automotive juggernaut that it's become. They made, and continue to make, a high quality car for way less than that BMW. And the maintenance is way less money. I've actually driven long distances with both an Accord and a BMW 5-series. No doubt the BMW is a suh-weet handling sedan. But for actual long-term ownership? Give me the Accord any day.

Sounds like heresy, I know. Why?

The Accord is a doggone comfortable car and has been for several generations of the model. It gets good gas mileage, is extremely reliable (typical of Hondas), and very, very comfortable. Doesn't handle on rails the way a BMW does, but I'm not a Grand Prix racer, either.

And if someone were to just give me, free 'n' clear, my choice of a BMW 5-series or an Accord, I'd take the 5-series, sell it, buy an Accord, and use what's left over the next 10 years or so to pay for gas, regular oil/tire changes, etc.

Replace "Accord" with "Lee", and "BMW" with any of Hornady/Dillon/RCBS, and you have a similar situation. I thank Lee every day I shoot (and that's a lot!). If not for Lee, I wouldn't have started casting or even reloading. And I'd be a terrible shot today as a result. That would be very bad in a self/home-defense scenario.

Somethin' to think about.

[grumman581]

And if someone were to just give me, free 'n' clear, my choice of a BMW 5-series or an Accord, I'd take the 5-series, sell it, buy an Accord, and use what's left over the next 10 years or so to pay for gas, regular oil/tire changes, etc.

The BMWs handle pretty good, but I don't like the fact that they put a speed limiter on them to keep you from driving faster than 155 mph. Even if I seldom drive that fast, I don't like the idea of it having the speed limiter.

[Cowboy T]

The BMWs handle pretty good, but I don't like the fact that they put a speed limiter on them to keep you from driving faster than 155 mph. Even if I seldom drive that fast, I don't like the idea of it having the speed limiter.

"Seldom"?

Wow...looks like I really need to move to Texas! And I'll even bring my Pro 1000's with me.

[grumman581]

"Seldom"?

Wow...looks like I really need to move to Texas! And I'll even bring my Pro 1000's with me.

Yeah, seldom... The last really good speeding ticket I had was for 154 in a 55... I got a single blip on my radar detector... The cops were waiting for me in the next town... 30 minutes later, the cop who supposedly clocked me showed up and let's just say that he was rather pissed... I think he either clocked me when I was coming up to speed or when I had slowed down for a curve... I never saw him... These days, I'm a bit more mellow, but with 450 hp, I've been known to exceed the speed limit a bit...

It's around 880 miles across Texas along I-10 and to do it at 55 mph in the old days was pure agony. Even these days with the speed limits around 70-75 and the knowledge that the cops usually won't give you a ticket for anything less than 10 mph over, it's not that much better. Even averaging 100 mph, you're looking at nearly a 9 hour drive just to cross Texas. Used to be that the max fine was $200 plus court costs. It's been so long since I've paid a fine that I don't know what it is these days.

[leadman]

One of the Lee products that I have not had any issues with previously and really liked was their case trimmer. The 7 X 57 case length gauge I just purchased does not have a steel pin in the end to go thru the primer hole. It is turned down from the body of the gauge so it is one piece.
The new 7 x 57 was only .002" below max case length and the "pin" was too large to go thru the primer flash hole. Both were easy to correct, but why did they have to change it??

This was the last of a long list of items from Lee I had to have replaced or repaired. The first Lee Mak group buy mold was cut off center, the second had an alignment pin fall out after about 50 boolits. Pat sent me a knurled pin and I installed it with loctite and crimped it in place.
My recently purchased 43 Mauser die set had the shellholder break trying to size the first new case, top metal was only .027" thick. Bought an RCBS shellholder. Lee is redesigning theirs. The full length die was so rough it scratched the $2.58 cases badly. Pat polished the die and sent it back. Still not perfect, but better.
Couple years ago I bought an RCBS mold for the 41 mag. The halfs of the cavities did not match up so the boolit was offset. Called RCBS and the whole batch was that way and they did not plan on making more soon so I returned it and bought a SAECO. One of the best molds I own.

[1hole]

"Is Lee any different than the old Herters line of equipment which launched many new reloaders ?"

Yeah, a little. Herter's wasn't a "maker", they were a reseller of tools made by others who put the Herter's labels on. Their tools were hell for stout but a lot of the surface appearances were a bit crude. I liked their scales better than Lee's, still have mine and it still works very well (as beam scales do) but I rarely use it anymore.

The fellows who now object to Dick Lee's praise for his tools would find him quite modest compared to ol' George Herter! And, yeah, there were those price snobs back then who slimed Herter's inexpensive stuff too but, like Lee's, it also worked fine. Young and other cash strapped outdoor sportsmen of all types lost a rare friend when Herter's closed.

I still have a well worn 1967 catalog I thumb through occasionally. I really wanted one of the Sako L-461 light-weight .223 barred actions for $85.50 and their semi-finshed Grand Delux Fiddleback Am. Walnut stock for $47.50 they sold back then. That wasn't nearly as cheap at the time as it sounds now.

Ah well, three little girls needed shoes, dentists, coats, etc.. and young father had to have a sense of priorities; I'm satisfied with the choices I made ... but that Sako sure would have been nice.

[mdi]

Isn't it interesting that many report no problems, and every once in a while you get a guy that reports something goes wrong with everything he's purchased?

Makes one wonder a bit.

I'm in the category of those guys that have had good results with a wide range of Lee products.

I'm with you. I've worked with hand tools all my life and don't break any 'cause I usually use them the way the manufacturer intended. Reloading tools are the same; a "Primitive Pete" or a gorilla can break any tool.

P.S. Never had a problem with an Lee tool that I used correctly. Not saying all failures are from too much oomph, but a lot are...

[lurch]

"
The fellows who now object to Dick Lee's praise for his tools would find him quite modest compared to ol' George Herter!

Yep, the "Big Wind of Waseca" as I heard him affectionately called.

All the Herter's stuff I ever tried worked just fine - maybe not the best available, but very serviceable. Dick Lee can tout his wares too, and he's entitled to. Some of it works very well and some not so. I really like the Autoprime tools and use them for all my priming. But not so much the boolit molds...

[prs]

I have molds from Lee, Lyman, and RCBS and no problems with any of them doing as they were advertised. Come to think of it, I have quite a bit of Lee stuff and nothing to gripe about.

prs