Why Knock Lee Equipment??

[alor_swe]

Ive used a bunch of lee equipment, auto prime, pro 1000, loadmaster, moulds, dies etc.

I've sold off the p1000 and the loadmaster, but alas I miss the p1000.
It's one of the best presses I've ever used. even compared to the dillon 650 I use now.
The p1000 is a very good press but it only hold three dies and that is the reason i sold it off and bought a loadmaster. The loadmaster had to go because of the primer seating and I wanted a faster casefeeder.
As stated above an engineering degree helps when you tinker with a lee progressive, especially the loadmaster, but its all good and fun as the journy is 80% of the experience.

As for the moulds I take a lee six-banger any day and i weep when I have to pull out my lyman 4-cavs. All steel moulds I've tried leave me with a searing pain in my hands and arms after a full day of casting. I cast one full week per year to get me my bullet supply for the rest of the year.

In my current setup in the 650 I still use two lee dies as I haven found anything better that I can afford. A factory crimp is a must for 9mm in my book and I use a lee bullet seater with a lee bullet feeder. I use this setup as I need a high throughput and don't have much time to put on reloading.

There are many that say "lee is ****". But I've heard many, many horror stories with other brands as well. So I tend to take those stories with a pinch of salt.

Lee may have some bad luck with their quality control but all the gear I've bought the last ten years have worked flawless. The real equipment killer have been little old ham-fisted me.

I know a die hard dillon 550 fan that haven't been in the same room as a lee press since he threw out his lee single stage like 15 years ago. Even he has admitted that a lee turret gives a truckload of press for the buck, and he bought one about a year ago for his low volume rifle reloads.


To sum my rant up:
Lee isn't all good or bad, bot noone else is either.You have to try the stuff for yourself and see if it fill your needs. And a good thing with all the lee haters out there is that they end to sell off their equipment for almost nothing, for me to buy and save even more money. I tend to be very selective in my reloading habits, with everything involved as powders, dies etc.
I want the stuff that gives me maximum bang for the buck, nothing else will suffice.
Yes I'm a cheepskate and a brassbuzzard, but this is what keeps my shooting habits going without another mortgage.

[wallenba]

The one I have just won't throw anywhere near a consistant charge for some reason. I gave up on it.

(on Lee PPM)
Yep... one item that needs to be tweaked. Take it apart, use rubbing alcohol to clean everything inside that the powder comes in contact with. Then dust everything with powdered graphite. Assemble the rotor so that it is not too tight or too loose. It should begin to steady up after about half a hopper is cycled through it. Also give the hopper a little tap each time the meter reservoir is filling.

[John Guedry]

Man I feel like a dummy I put a reply to this post in the one above it. Oh well a senior moment.

[Hansj]

Man, this cracks me up! Kind of like the age old Ford/Chevy/Chrysler argument. Or maybe even the Ford/Lincoln/Mercury
Chevy/GM/GMC/etc. etc.
Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth
arguments.

I am sure that all manufacturers have made some good stuff and some bad stuff. Truth is we all like what we are comfortable with and that which is in our budget. I say why knock somebody else's favored stuff? Just fuhgeddaboudit!

[Nate1778]

The loadmaster had to go because of the primer seating and I wanted a faster casefeeder.

Please explain, with a collator how is it not one of the fastest case feeders out there that doesn't use a motor?

[fredj338]

I use some of Lee's stuff but find much of their equip just cheaply made & very easy to break. Sure, simple hand tools like a case chamfer will work fine. Get into a progressive press & you see why it's so cheap. Most require way more tinkering to get to run well. So I pick & choose. Progressive, Dillon or Hornady. Dies, Lee are ok, but quality control is terrible, too many not to spec. I prefer Dillon, Redding or RCBS. Same w/ their bullet molds. I have some, got lucky & they work fine, but I have sent some back too. I do like their 20# P4 pot, works great for the money. Beats the $300 Lyman or RCBS easily. Then again, all it does is melt lead.

[Shiloh]

I have lots of LEE equipment. Dies, sizing die kits, molds and handles, primer tool. I have RCBS, Dillon, Lyman and other manufacturers as well.

LEE equipment seems to work for me. The lever on the auto prime tool is what breaks most often.

Shiloh

[zardoz]

I look at things on a cost per unit basis relative to value per unit. In other words, how much value do I get out of something, relative to how much it costs?

I own a few different brands of equipment, and Lee makes up 75% of it. I would only buy another brand usually, only if Lee did not make exactly what I wanted.

For me, cost per boolit, or cost per cartridge or shotshell reloaded drives a lot of my decisions. I factor in everything, including initial cost of the equipment and tools. I bought my first reloading set off of a gun show table, the Lee Anniversary set, which included most everything needed for $60 a few years ago.

At any rate, Lee equipment has done what I desired for the most part, and keeps the relative cost per shot low from the outset. I've had a few issues, but none that would put me off the brand. Certainly not perceived "peer status" in any case. I reload for casual hobby enjoyment, and it suits me just fine.

I prefer to save as much money as possible for an early, and long retirement at this stage of the game.

[zardoz]

Well, well, well.

With that last post, I became a "Boolit Master" somehow. Is 150 posts the mark?

[Cowboy T]

"i almost never got 6 good heads at a time."

Golly gee, I've seen a lot but that's the first time I've seen anyone blaming Lee for not getting good head!

ROTFLMAO!

Well played, Sir. VERY well played....

[Cowboy T]

And as for the Lee bashing, all my gear is Lee except for my beam scale (that's an RCBS 10-10). It all works just fine, including the Auto-Prime.

If anyone who doesn't like their Pro 1000 or Loadmaster wants to dump it, please PM me.

[John Boy]

Gents, let's face it ... John Lee is an innovator and has produced some real neat stuff for the reloading community. At prices that are dirt affordable too.

Out of about 20 Lee molds have only sent one back. I've sent 3 Lyman's back. Plus if one 'tunes' the Lee molds, they will cast as good as many of the iron ones costing 4-5 times more (both nose and bottom pours)

As for the Lee Dies - zero complaints and have probably close to 30 of them for loading BPCR and other rifle calibers. If there's a bitch with Lee Dies, spend your money on CH4D's, deep pockets!

I shoot a lot of Lee bullets out to 1000yds for BPCR reloads and depending on the bullet design, they will group as well as Lyman - BACO - Paul Jones - Hoch - RCBS - NEI ones. Just tune the Lee molds up before one casts with them. Only takes about a half hour. One of my favorite 1000yd Lee bullets is the Lee 459-500-3R

I use over 20 expander plugs for my BPCR reloads, including custom diameters produced by Lee. Check the price for the plugs and expander die, then do a comparison to the prices that BACO is selling other brands for - plus the price for customs which other vendors don't want to give you the time of day making. I've got 3 more Lee custom plugs in the works now for some vintage Ideal Dr Hudson 32-40 bullets with diameters that haven't been around for decades. And guess what, all the plugs drop right into the the cheap Lee expander dies!

I have a friend that has over xxx long arms of all makes and calibers. He also frequently adds to his collection, rifles with calibers that haven't seen the light of day in a hundred plus years. He makes a drawing for the cases from chamber casts and bullet dimensions from reference sources, calls John Lee, faxes the schematics to him and under $125 dollars for the dies - has them in a reasonable time frame. One can read about many of Bill Roth's 'rare' rifles with components produced by Lee in the Single Shot Exchange magazine. Bill also includes the targets groups shot by these rifles from Lee molds. Try doing that with other vendors who don't want to be bothered or charge an arm and a leg for the reloading components

Moral of the post - if one doesn't like Lee products ... Simply Don't Buy Them!

[RP]

After some thought and a few beers I have relized LEEs are not worth ****. The worst are the LEE three hole turrets presses so if you have one send it to me and I save you the trouble of trashing it. PM me for my addy PS I pay shipping.

[geargnasher]

I'll take everything Ricky doesn't want!

I love Lee products, they enable me to afford to cast and load for every gun I own, if I were buying other brands I could only cast and load for 1/3 the guns.

I will never claim they're the best (although they make the most consistent and fastest case trimmer on the planet next to the several hunderd dollar Hornady Lock'n'load, and the best powder measure, the best powder-through-expander dies unless you need a custom-sized plug, the best hand primer pocket cleaner, and the best turret press, hands down.)

I've used several turret presses, and Lee makes the only one that keeps the dies square with the ram under pressure BOTH WAYS due to their innovative turret mounting method. the quick caliber changes is second to none.

For benchrest and oddball guns, I would never use Lee equipment unless it spec'd correctly for my application, that's where stuff gets ordered from Sinclair Int. and the ammo crafted on an old faithful RCBS Ammomaster, one operation at a time. But 98% of my shooting is recreational, and the easy-to-use, cheap, fast, and innovative Lee stuff makes my day!

(Lee moulds and chamfer tools, unfortunately, universally suck bigtime when used by me).

Gear

[Recluse]

And I really like the Lee Perfect powder measure, in fact have two of them. I also have RCBS and Lyman but rarely use them as I don't like cutting powder granules. I also like the way I can shut off the powder flow and remove the hopper.

Ditto. It's my primary powder measure and has been for the past fifteen or so years--along with way causing me to send back or sell powder measures by Lyman, RCBS (3) and Hornady.

If anyone would've told me twenty years ago when I bought it--as a back up, nonetheless--that I'd be selling the Lyman, RCBS or Hornady high-dollar powder measures and keeping the Lee, I would've accused them of being on drugs.

I've run across some stuff from Lee that I just flat don't like, and I've been polite enough to write a civil, polite letter to them explaining what I did not like and why.

I have always, without fail, received a thoughtful, genuine response.

I was told by Dillon, conversely, some years ago that I was simply an idiot. Granted, this was from a bozo telephone sales guy who did not last long at Dillon as that is NOT Dillon's way, but if you're going to whine about Quality Control, shouldn't it START with the employees closest to the customers. . . . ?

I've had excellent customer service from RCBS, too. My question is, why should I have needed all this fantastic customer service?

Older I get, the more "reverse snobbery" I tend to get. There is value in the dollar for the tools you buy, but there is also practicality and reality in the value as well. I have a couple of Black & Decker cordless screwdrivers rather than DeWalts because I don't use the tools frequently enough--or more importantly--HARD enough to warrant spending four times more money on a tool in which the screw being driven has no idea if it was turned by a DeWalt or a Black & Decker.

Likewise, the targets and game I've shot never cared which color or brand of tool made the cartridge that did them in.

As Bret so aptly said, often times it's the operator more than the operation that messes up. I've known people, as has Ray In NH, who could tear up an anvil or break a crowbar. Those people NEED Dillon's No BS warranty.

I've also known people who did good to use a phillips screwdriver on the most basic of sheetmetal screws. Those people NEED Dillon's No BS warranty.

And I've known people who load and shoot several thousand rounds of ammo a week and who are the true Economists of reloading. Those people need Dillon's No BS warranty.

I like and respect the innovation that Lee has brought to our industry. I like the pricing structure, and most of all I like the fact that Lee has made it affordable, and enticing, to bring MORE shooters into the fold of reloading. RCBS and Dillon damned sure haven't done it with their pricing, now have they?

Lee took the "elitism" out of the "elite mentality" that early reloaders used to have. And in doing so, they made it affordable for the common man. And having grown up poor in my youth and having been judged by the "elitists," I'll always patronize a business that works to level the playing field so that more enthusiasts can join in and participate.

[alor_swe]

Please explain, with a collator how is it not one of the fastest case feeders out there that doesn't use a motor?

Exactly, the one I use now has a motor.
The collator on the lee tubes works miracles!

[John Boy]

And I really like the Lee Perfect powder measure,

Here's a test that I did comparing the accuracy of several powder chargers back in 2006. You'll be surprised at the accuracy of the Lee - compared to other chargers costing substantially more
http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7037

[Char-Gar]

I fail tosee any positive purpose to this thread. Looks to me like a fellow with time on his hands who just like to stir things up and sit back and watch.

[John Boy]

Yep, a Pot Stirrer! He's been all over the forum but not a word from him on this thread. Some folks get their jollies seeing how many views and posts they can run up on threads they start - believe Greenhorn44 is of that ilk
Here's his bio ... Been Shooting since I was a nehi. Purchased my first handgun 2 years ago. Started reloading feb 2010

[grumman581]

There will always be those who think that Lee products are . I own Lee molds, a 20 lb casting pot, and various resizing dies. So far, I'm happy with them. I have a Dillon 450 and a RCBS RS-3 press. One thing that I like about the Lee resizing dies is that they push from the bottom and as such, they don't need a different top punch for every bullet head profile that you might want to resize.