H&R/NEF "Handi" rifles in .45/70 cal

[Bucks Owin]

I'm wondering if these rifles are strong enough to take handloads from Ruger #1, Browning B78 data? Since they are also chambered in some high intensity calibers I would imagine so.....(as long as recoil isn't a factor in such a lightweight rifle!)

Any thoughts?

Dennis

[windwalker]

buck h&r rate them the same as the marlin 45/70. some guys have used ruger loads but it is onley a brake action and the 45/70 has a lot more back thrust than a .270, you would end up streching the action especaly the hinge pin i think it is better to keep to the top marlin loads. i shoot a lee 500r cast bullet in my buff classic. bullet is 515 grn it is dooing 1615 to 1625 fps with a muzzel energy of 3020.4376 foot pounds .i have just fitted a gascheck to the bullet so will be able to push it to around 1690 fps which will give me 3266.9053 foot pounds of energy. thats a lot of thump from a big slug.
bernie

[Four Fingers of Death]

Man oh man! marlin loads are as much as I'd wanna touch off in one of those little darlins.

[omgb]

Lots of folks have had issues with stretched receivers and bunged up hinge pins. FWIW, the negative press has steered me away from these guns except for the light calibers such as 38 sp, 44-40 and maybe 30-30. I could be wrong about them, geez, some people don't seem to have any problems or complaints at all so, take what I just said with a grain of salt. In any case, I wouldnt put a hot 45-70 load through one I wanted to keep for a while.

[versifier]

If you want to shoot the hot loads, buy a Ruger #1, a B78, an Encore, or a bolt in .458mag and download it, or even a .458X1.5. Even if you stick to light loads in them, you may run into problems.

While I know that a lot of people sing the praises of these cheap and poorly made H&R/NEF break actions, painting spots on a goat doesn't make it a cow. They don't stand up to heavy use, and often don't even stand up to regular use. A close friend got one in .30-30 that loosened up after two boxes, yes, 40 shots, and after sending it back was told that it was "within specs". I was finally able to shim it effectively, but he doesn't trust it and frankly, neither would I. Three other shooters have brought me theirs in different chamberings with the same problems, one of them had had the factory fit two extra barrels for his. He came out with what I call the "H&R Mantra": I shoulda bought an Encore, shoulda bought an Encore, shoulda bought an Encore.

There appear to be inconsistencies in the hardness of the steels in critical areas, nothing else explains that some have no problems with them while others have nothing but problems. Even with careful polishing, their triggers are laughable at best. Whenever asked my opinion of them, I always recommend that they be sold before they loosen up. In fairness I should say that the barrels themselves do seem to be generally very accurate, so maybe you could turn down the shank, thread it, and screw it into a bolt action and get some decent use out of it that way.

[Johnch]

I used to shoot a few Ruger loads in my 45/70 Handie rifle .

But getting the ^(%^(* kicked out of me was not fun for long .

I now load Marlin loads as MY max

Johnch

[Bucks Owin]

OK, good replies folks. The factory Win 300 gr @ 1850 fps "backs up" some, so a 405 gr at similar velocity (Marlin 95 data) will likely be all I'd care to shoot in it anyway since I ain't one of them masochawhozits!

Thanks,

Dennis

FWIW, accuracy seems pretty good in mine....

[lovedogs]

I, too, have heard lots of complaints on the H&R's but am skeptical of them. I know a bunch that shoot them and have fine results. They are limited to Marlin-type mid-range loads according to what H&R will tell you. All the complaints I've been able to check out have turned out to be operator defects, like shooting Ruger loads in them. They aren't built to do that. Another problem is the guy who grabs a used bbl. and slaps it on his receiver. Sometimes things are right but sometimes they're not. And when things get loose he blames the mfg. instead of his own self for doing something so dumb. It's my understanding they make several strengths of receivers, too. Is it one for shotguns, one for low pressure rounds, and another for high pressure?

Anyway, I take all these complaints with a grain of salt. All those that I know first-hand that use them properly like them. Granted, they aren't the fanciest and don't have the best triggers. But they're good, usable guns. I have two Buffalo Classics in my locker that I'll put up against any other .45-70 who wishes to be made a fool of. I have yet to see ANY other brand that will consistently shoot under MOA from 100 yds. to a half mile and both of these will do that. And that's with smokeless powder!

I wish I could afford a Sharps or Rolling Block but my H&R's have proven to be just as good and just as accurate. It's kind of fun to outshoot the expensive guns at the matches with my $300 rifles! 'Nuff said!

[Bucks Owin]

I, too, have heard lots of complaints on the H&R's but am skeptical of them. I know a bunch that shoot them and have fine results. They are limited to Marlin-type mid-range loads according to what H&R will tell you. All the complaints I've been able to check out have turned out to be operator defects, like shooting Ruger loads in them. They aren't built to do that. Another problem is the guy who grabs a used bbl. and slaps it on his receiver. Sometimes things are right but sometimes they're not. And when things get loose he blames the mfg. instead of his own self for doing something so dumb. It's my understanding they make several strengths of receivers, too. Is it one for shotguns, one for low pressure rounds, and another for high pressure?

Anyway, I take all these complaints with a grain of salt. All those that I know first-hand that use them properly like them. Granted, they aren't the fanciest and don't have the best triggers. But they're good, usable guns. I have two Buffalo Classics in my locker that I'll put up against any other .45-70 who wishes to be made a fool of. I have yet to see ANY other brand that will consistently shoot under MOA from 100 yds. to a half mile and both of these will do that. And that's with smokeless powder!

I wish I could afford a Sharps or Rolling Block but my H&R's have proven to be just as good and just as accurate. It's kind of fun to outshoot the expensive guns at the matches with my $300 rifles! 'Nuff said!

And well said!

Thanks,

Dennis

[windwalker]

its a bit of the topic but have a look at this, it is a page on the wurfflein rifle, man were they nice guns pity h&r dont fit there barrels into a stub like wurfflein did .then it would be easy to fit a octagonal barrel on the buff classic.or any of there guns.
bernie
http://www.pbase.com/halp/wuffsales

[Scrounger]

its a bit of the topic but have a look at this, it is a page on the wurfflein rifle, man were they nice guns pity h&r dont fit there barrels into a stub like wurfflein did .then it would be easy to fit a octagonal barrel on the buff classic.or any of there guns.
bernie
http://www.pbase.com/halp/wuffsales

Friend of mine does that with Contender barrels. I understand there was a well known gunsmith doing it too. He cuts the barrel just in front of the little gizmo (can't think of the right name for it now) and threads it like it was a rifle receiver. Then turns down barrels and threads them to match. One barrel stub, unlimited barrels. There is a limit on cartridge case size though...

[threett1]

I have one and love it. It is one of the older frames(somewhere before 2000) and can have only low pressure barrels fitted to it. All the Handirifle frames now made can have any of the barrels fitted to them. I am one who will say Marlin loads are plenty. I'm a very big guy and Marlin loads will rock me. Figure my 340gr loads at 1500fps will kill anything in Missouri(and have so far)

[Bucks Owin]

They may be fairly inexpensive but "poorly made"?

Mine still closes tightly after several hundred 300 gr factory rounds. The trigger isn't the best "out of the box" but it's fairly easy to rework if one is inclined to that sort of thing. It's light and "handy" and the accuracy is certainly up to par!

Until I can afford a Ruger #1 (or better yet a used #3) my HR serves admirably IMO....

As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of one day getting the longer 32" BC barrel for mine and restocking it. The factory stock is the worst part of the rifle to me, UGLY!!!

FWIW,

Dennis

(The flyer was called and isn't the rifle's fault BTW)

[Junior1942]

Here's a five shot 100 yard group from a 22" barrel 45-70 Handi Rifle using a WGRS rear and Firesight front. Poorly built? Not hardly!

[dk17hmr]

If recoil is a factor for ya'll take a 3/4" copper pipe unscrew the butt pad slip the pipe into the hole in the stock for the bolt and mark it for length cut it then pack one end full of Steel Wool, about 1/2" in, then fill it with lead. Let that cool take out the steel wool, then put it in the butt stock hollow end forward (stock bolt head) and put the pad back on. Adds about 3 pounds to the weight of the gun. With my muzzleloader barrel on the gun it weighs close to 10.5 pounds. When touchin off a 100gr charge of 777 its about like shooting a 22lr. Also balances the gun out a little better.

Little something to think about when getting into heavy loads.

DK

[Bucks Owin]

If recoil is a factor for ya'll take a 3/4" copper pipe unscrew the butt pad slip the pipe into the hole in the stock for the bolt and mark it for length cut it then pack one end full of Steel Wool, about 1/2" in, then fill it with lead. Let that cool take out the steel wool, then put it in the butt stock hollow end forward (stock bolt head) and put the pad back on. Adds about 3 pounds to the weight of the gun. With my muzzleloader barrel on the gun it weighs close to 10.5 pounds. When touchin off a 100gr charge of 777 its about like shooting a 22lr. Also balances the gun out a little better.

Little something to think about when getting into heavy loads.

DK

Yeah, but then you'll have a 10.5 lb "Unhandi Rifle"!
If a person wants to lug a heavyweight rifle around in the hills, I can think of a few rifles I'd rather lug than a Handi Rifle....(Like a BR gun! ;0 )

Their "handiness" is part of what's so cool about them....

Dennis

[dk17hmr]

One could put the pipe in for bench shooting or target shooting then for hunting take it out. Heavy recoiling rifles are a bitch to shoot off a bench for more then 10 rounds.

Im still young (19) heavy rifles dont bother me that much. We huntin in the PorkyPine Mountain in the U.P. and I often walk 5-6 miles a day around the hills, after a week carring a 9-10 pounder it gets old, more so when ya dont see deer.

Just an option for getting into heavy loads with a light rifle.

DK

[Dutch4122]

One could put the pipe in for bench shooting or target shooting then for hunting take it out. Heavy recoiling rifles are a bitch to shoot off a bench for more then 10 rounds........................
Just an option for getting into heavy loads with a light rifle.
DK

I've come to the same conclusion with my USRAC/Winchester Black Shadow in .444 Marlin, too light for bench work with heavy loads. Solved the problem in a different way, though. Gun weighs 5 pounds empty with it's 20" barrel, synthetic buttstock & forend. The buttstock is hollow so I filled it with lead shot. Now I have a lever action .444 that weighs in just over 10 pounds. Should be a lot more pleasant to shoot off the bench when I go back to the range with the 320 grn WFNGC I am currently playing with through this carbine. When I have a suitable load worked up I can just pour the lead shot back out and replace it with something lighter such as used corncob media.

[Bucks Owin]

Simplest way to shoot a light rifle that backs up with authority is to use what's known as a "sissy bag". Nothing more than a sandbag between the butt and your shoulder. Whatever the weight of the bag is effectively the same as adding that amount of weight to the rifle and a hell of a lot easier than fooling around with pipe, lead weights, etc....

Worked for me when I was doing a lot of benchresting with calibers like the .300 and .338 Win. Made it feel like a .270 or .243!

Dennis

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've come to the same conclusion with my USRAC/Winchester Black Shadow in .444 Marlin, too light for bench work with heavy loads. Solved the problem in a different way, though. Gun weighs 5 pounds empty with it's 20" barrel, synthetic buttstock & forend. The buttstock is hollow so I filled it with lead shot. Now I have a lever action .444 that weighs in just over 10 pounds. Should be a lot more pleasant to shoot off the bench when I go back to the range with the 320 grn WFNGC I am currently playing with through this carbine. When I have a suitable load worked up I can just pour the lead shot back out and replace it with something lighter such as used corncob media.

The hollow stocks are noisy in the bush and you can fill them with the spray crack filler. Shuts them up. A bag of lead shot between your shoulder and the butt helps if you ever have to do it again. I find that looking at your posture is important. If the gun is down too low your back will be arched forward int it and you will soak up a lot of energy. If you have your back straighter, you can bend out of th way and you don't cop as much punishment. Mick.