2400 and the 45 Colt?

[dubber123]

Doug, Dan will probably answer if he see it, but his last post in this thread was 10 years ago. This might be the oldest thread bought back to life here

[44man]

I use my load in the old Vaquero, very strong gun and would not use it in weaker.
2400 is more forgiving when downloaded some where you don't fool with 296 or H110.
2400 can get tricky if you use too much, it can spike.
I don't use 2400 much since I can't find any and what little I have left is in a Hercules can but it always worked for me. Long ago it was all we had.
4227's--NO for the .44 and I have no idea with the .45, any gun heat changes the burn. It works in the .357 Max but I steer away for larger.
I don't like Unique much either. I never liked a few drops of powder in large cases with instant pressure rises.

[44MAG#1]

"For the LEE 300 gr bullets my MAX load is 19 grains of 2400. This is an absolute max for me and I WILL NOT push any farther. I've gone to 20 grains in my win 94 and my blackhawk, but recoil is nasty in both. It sheared the magazine tube screw off on my win 94, and makes my hands throb after just 3 shots in my blackhawk. This load is my moose and grizzly load."
"Most of my shooting with the 300 grainers and 2400 has been with 15 grains of 2400. It smacks big game animals just as hard as the hotter load does, but it doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as badly."

Now just to satisfy my mind, which is always searching for little quirks, if the 15 gr load of 2400 "smacks big game just as hard as the hotter load does, but doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as bad". Why would you even carry it in Grizzly or Moose country or was this just "filler" writing or maybe just "fluff" writing just to make a point in some direction to the OP.
Kinda contradictory to me, but understandable to give the idea that firewall loads are not needed even though sometimes we use them to appease our doubts on what we think we believe.
Now do most of us really believe what we think we believe or do we just think we really believe in what we think we believe?
Or do we have doubts in our beliefs because few of us have concrete proof of what we believe to be true due to many variables involved in establishing beliefs?

[44MAG#1]

Oh well.

[dubber123]

I would guess most of us believe a more powerful load hits harder. If they really were all the same, the Brits really wasted a ton of time and effort making all those big double rifle cartridges. Now to a point, good enough is really that, "good enough". If it doesn't beat you or the gun up, and is "good enough" thats where most people end up. When in doubt, in country with bigger game than we are normally accustomed to, say Moose or large bears, I bet most people if given their druthers will gravitate towards a more powerful load, "just in case". The slower load MAY work just as well, but it's not so likely the more powerful one will work WORSE, and it MAY work better.

I bet the normal human reaction when faced with a large angry bear, is "man I wish I had a bigger gun", not "man, I'm glad I put my .22 in my pocket". Just my guess

[Outpost75]

+1 on the 6.5gr of red dot load-very accurate in several of my .45's. I would suggest extreme caution with old 2400 load data--say, from the 1970's. My unshakeable belief is that the 2400 we buy now is substantially faster than that we used in the '70's.

That has been my experience also, although primarily in rifles. I have found that in .44 Magnum, .303 British and .30-'06 I must back off Lyman max. loads by a full 10% as a minimum, and that the "start" loads in Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) seem to be max...

[DanWalker]

"For the LEE 300 gr bullets my MAX load is 19 grains of 2400. This is an absolute max for me and I WILL NOT push any farther. I've gone to 20 grains in my win 94 and my blackhawk, but recoil is nasty in both. It sheared the magazine tube screw off on my win 94, and makes my hands throb after just 3 shots in my blackhawk. This load is my moose and grizzly load."
"Most of my shooting with the 300 grainers and 2400 has been with 15 grains of 2400. It smacks big game animals just as hard as the hotter load does, but it doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as badly."

Now just to satisfy my mind, which is always searching for little quirks, if the 15 gr load of 2400 "smacks big game just as hard as the hotter load does, but doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as bad". Why would you even carry it in Grizzly or Moose country or was this just "filler" writing or maybe just "fluff" writing just to make a point in some direction to the OP.
Kinda contradictory to me, but understandable to give the idea that firewall loads are not needed even though sometimes we use them to appease our doubts on what we think we believe.
Now do most of us really believe what we think we believe or do we just think we really believe in what we think we believe?
Or do we have doubts in our beliefs because few of us have concrete proof of what we believe to be true due to many variables involved in establishing beliefs?

No it's not just "fluff". I load with 20 grains of 2400 because even that feels insufficient when contemplating a close encounter with an irritated grizzly or moose. Is there a specific point you were trying to make or are you just busting my ballz? I have been a member here since the days of shooters.com and I have to say it has gotten a LOT more unfriendly and seems to be getting more and more infested with confrontational jerks and self aggrandizing knowitalls over the last couple of years. That's one of the main reasons I have quit posting and rarely even lurk anymore.

[DanWalker]

If you want to get into the 75% ~ 90% powerband in the .45 Colt with a heavy for caliber boolit, 2400 and LilGun are definitely two good choices of powder. Loading 296/H110 to this level is not advised as it is below published minimum starting weights.

I don't have an exact load for the 300RF in .45 Colt but I trust Dan Walker's 19.5gr as absolute max. What crimp groove did you use Dan? I would think to want to crimp into the bottom groove for the longer COA.

My .44 SBH really likes 17.0gr 2400 under the Lee 315gr RF boolit, this gives me 1180-1200fps from a 7 1/2" SBH. Pleasant to shoot, well.... Sorta.. Great hunting load, accurate.

I crimp in the lower groove. Feeds fine in my win 94 and chambers fine in my Blackhawk.

[44MAG#1]

No it's not just "fluff". I load with 20 grains of 2400 because even that feels insufficient when contemplating a close encounter with an irritated grizzly or moose. Is there a specific point you were trying to make or are you just busting my ballz? I have been a member here since the days of shooters.com and I have to say it has gotten a LOT more unfriendly and seems to be getting more and more infested with confrontational jerks and self aggrandizing knowitalls over the last couple of years. That's one of the main reasons I have quit posting and rarely even lurk anymore.

Busting your genitalia was not my intent. Just wondering what you believe. Kinda an inconsistency if you will.

I knew what you meant but inconsistencies do exist. Just like this.
I've been fiddling around with 2400 in my 45's for a few years now.
"For the LEE 300 gr bullets my MAX load is 19 grains of 2400. This is an absolute max for me and I WILL NOT push any farther. I've gone to 20 grains in my win 94 and my blackhawk, but recoil is nasty in both. It sheared the magazine tube screw off on my win 94, and makes my hands throb after just 3 shots in my blackhawk. This load is my moose and grizzly load."

See the the capitalized words "I WILL NOT push any farther"? Then here in your last post you say you use 20 gr of 2400.
I'm sure you being a understanding person see the inconsistencies.
Not trying to bust anything but just wondering is all.

Have a great day.

[DanWalker]

Excellent point. Allow me to clarify. I won't push past 19 grains in a levergun but load 20 grains in my Blackhawk. 20 grains is too much in the Winchester. It causes the screw that retains the mag tube to fail. Screw doesn't break. Mag tube jumps out past it. These are NOT hunting loads. They are extremely uncomfortable to shoot in the Blackhawk. They are strictly for defense from the (slim) possibility of an encounter with grizzlies. As far as inconsistencies go I have no excuse, other than the DECADE that has passed since I made that post.

[44MAG#1]

DanWalker,

Thanks for clarifying that. I recently (four days ago) bought one of those molds and will be trying your 6.5 gr RD load.
Do you use a standard or mag primer with that powder? The reason I ask I I've tried some fast powder in lower charge weights with both light and heavy bullets in a 45 Colt and depending where the power lays in the case got wide velocity swings.
Of course I am probably the only idiot that will test loads over a chrony by also testing powder position in the case.
I have had wide swings even with Bullseye in the 45 Colt with standard loads and I am a BIG fan of Bullseye.
Just wondering if a mag primer will give more consistent loads and if you have tested them.

[DanWalker]

I haven't actually,"tested" them, but I have used them. Didn't see any appreciable difference in the results on target, but it was just informal shooting at rocks and stuff. The one thing I did see was the better accuracy I got at 50 yards when I switched from the 250 grain SWC's and went to the LEE 300's.

[44MAG#1]

Dan Walker,

Do you cast hard bullets (I do) or try to us a middle of the road alloy?
That bullet with such a big meplat even at modest velocities should do well.
Ive been shooting a 44 Mag SBH 45/8's with a 330 gr LBT-LFN-GC at 1225 and like it.

[DanWalker]

Mine are around 12-14 bhn. My alloy is now around 70/30 range scrap/WW's. I air cool these bullets. I have water dropped them before and they get up around 20-22bhn, but I saw no real benefit from it. It just made them harder to size.

[VICIOUS]

Good information, still, bored and feeling the need to mess around with 2400.
Never let a good thread die.

[wildcatter]

My 45 Colt Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter thrives on it with a 340 grain WFN, my go too big game load. I prefer the 250 for Whitetail and smaller game. It mat be an old thread but so is the old 45 Colt, why let either die?


Remember, this is a spiky powder when you start pushing it, it works in the Ruger but would be even better in the FA 83, where this load and my custom bullet started life. I just dropped it 1/2 grain for the Ruger. Always work up slowly in any gun!

[Alferd Packer]

A lot of unburned powder 2400 leaves the .45 colt .
Try 17.5 hrs of 2400 under a 255 grain KT bullet wheel weights sized .252.
The dies should have a flaring tool no larger in diameter than .448 and the crimp applied should be a .1 inch flat band around the bullet.
Using a smaller sized flaring tool on a .252 bullet and the crimp that appears on custom loaded ammo you will have all the power and recoil you can take because ALL the 2400 powder will burn instead of blowing out the barrel behind the bullet.
This was Elmer Keith's load that used the new .45 Colt cases vs the old balloon head roomier cases.
Try this load before you knock it.
Also very accurate and powerful.
It's easy to load more powder and shoot it out the barrel on the ground with the loss in compression with the loose grip on the bullet and a soso crimp on the bullet.

[dougader]

The 45 auto round is correctly called the 45 acp

ACP stands for Automatic Colt Pistol, which describes the gun John Browning created. 45 auto accurately describes the ammunition for the 45 ACP (gun).

[onelight]

DanWalker,

Thanks for clarifying that. I recently (four days ago) bought one of those molds and will be trying your 6.5 gr RD load.
Do you use a standard or mag primer with that powder? The reason I ask I I've tried some fast powder in lower charge weights with both light and heavy bullets in a 45 Colt and depending where the power lays in the case got wide velocity swings.
Of course I am probably the only idiot that will test loads over a chrony by also testing powder position in the case.
I have had wide swings even with Bullseye in the 45 Colt with standard loads and I am a BIG fan of Bullseye.
Just wondering if a mag primer will give more consistent loads and if you have tested them.

I use standard primers in anything with Red Dot.