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Thread: Paper Patch Pig Gun Project

  1. #61
    Boolit Man
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    Ok, now you guys have me thinking.

    Take a single shot rifle like the Handi, Drill and tap a hole in the bottom of the barrel at about the 4 inch from chamber point where max pressure happens.
    Mount a second barrel of about 12 ga size (closed at both ends) to the rifle barrel and connect the two via a tube and valve.

    The pressure impulse would be modulated by the expansion chamber but would still apply force to the bullet at a slower pressure but for a longer duration. Allowing factory ammo to be subsonic with low muzzle blast or supersonic normal with the turning of a valve.

    Just a thought,

    John

  2. #62
    Banned Bullshop Junior's Avatar
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    Why a handi rifle?

  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Make a 45 ACP.
    Or a 45 Long Colt! Brass is available and it has a rim plus is long enough to eject properly - on second thoughts, the best for a little lady not used to guns is a single shot. In which case the magazine can be used as a spent brass recepticle! Mmmmm .... that would work! A Lee Enfield can lose quite a bit of weight by cutting off the butt socket and making it a one-piece stock carbine. 357 Magnum would be an excellent choise too. (Or 357 Maximum if brass available).
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  4. #64
    Boolit Man
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    A Handi is very cheap and if you screw up your only out a couple hundred

  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    A Handi is very cheap and if you screw up ...
    Not here. Rossi's are a bit cheaper but don't come in the calibers I want - only in 410 shotgun and 22LR. Pity!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  6. #66
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    32 ACP rifle! Mmmm ..... Long ago I imagined such a chambering!

    I'm guessing at the reason for the 30 bore for the 32 but would rather hear your splanation. . . .
    Reason: There is no use being limited to light weight CBoo designs mainly intended for pistols. No. You want some WEIGHT plus a nice meplat, like the 180 grain L311041. Well, for that, you'll need a 30 caliber barrel and a twist a bit faster than normal (so that the RPM is up there despite the low MV).

    Somebody else suggested a 45 ACP rifle. That, too, would be a neat choice. You could also do a 44 Special rifle and shoot heavier CBoos as deeply seated as feasible (to maximize the expansion ratio and, therefore, the potential for a low muzzle pressure).
    Have fun,
    Zeek

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Take a single shot rifle like the Handi, Drill and tap a hole in the bottom of the barrel at about the 4 inch from chamber point where max pressure happens.
    Mount a second barrel of about 12 ga size (closed at both ends) to the rifle barrel and connect the two via a tube and valve.
    Hey, I missed this post! Just a simple set of symmetrical holes leading into an expansion chamber set around the barrel should do it just nicely! Small, case, substancial powder charge, good initial ignition pressure, expansion to keep peak pressure down and we're off! There could be a problem with lead and patched boolits, though and that is the expansion ports would be at where boolit upset is at its maximum. Move those expansion ports to right in front of the case mouth and it might just work! Furthermore, the expansion chamber can be adjusted in volume to optimize the case size/powder charge ratio. (It will need to be removeable for cleaning anyway).
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  8. #68
    Banned Bullshop Junior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Or a 45 Long Colt! Brass is available and it has a rim plus is long enough to eject properly - on second thoughts, the best for a little lady not used to guns is a single shot. In which case the magazine can be used as a spent brass recepticle! Mmmmm .... that would work! A Lee Enfield can lose quite a bit of weight by cutting off the butt socket and making it a one-piece stock carbine. 357 Magnum would be an excellent choise too. (Or 357 Maximum if brass available).
    We have the 45 ACP carbine that uses the 1911 clips, and it feeds, and ejects fine.

  9. #69
    Banned Bullshop Junior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatman View Post
    A Handi is very cheap and if you screw up your only out a couple hundred
    Stevens 200 would be better.

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Right! Getting back to topic! (Not that I have any objections to drifting off - that adds info and interest - lots of info, actually! )

    I've been testing paper patch loads in my 303 carbine and that has been quite revealing. So now to apply what I have learned to the Pig Gun with its much shorter barrel. My first problem is the fore-sight mounted right on the muzzle - I cannot stick the muzzle into my firing tube rubber hole so it's too noisy! The suppressor will have to be done soon.

    What would be helpful is some idea of the correct muzzle pressure for a soft alloy to avoid muzzle deformation. The carbine required slower powder and more of it to fragment the patch at the muzzle. That seems to give the nose section enough time to upset sufficiently to cut the patch up front.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 02-22-2010 at 02:48 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
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    Well I reckon it would look real impressive at night with heaps of powder burning about 3-4ft from the end of the barrell.

  12. #72
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    ... it would look real impressive at night with heaps of powder burning ...
    Not the Pig Gun. That'll be loaded with AS30 shotgun powder so it'll be like firing a long barreled pistol at night. Actually, once the suppressor is fitted there won't be any muzzle flash at all.
    Did I mention the suppressor? Hee hee hee!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  13. #73
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    ... it would look real impressive at night with heaps of powder burning ...
    Well, OK, maybe. I've just found that AR2205/H4227 works better at crushing the paper patch and at not jamming the case in the chamber neck pitting and that powder is gonna make a bit of a muzzle flash but nowhere near a normal rifle load (I haven't even thought of starting the suppressor yet).
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  14. #74
    Boolit Man
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    Well?

    So how is the Pig Gun working out?
    Have you had a chance to bloody it yet?


    BTW: I handled an Enfield in 348 Win today.
    Full custom rifle with quarter rib sights, old english style stock. Lovely rifle
    It feeds the 348 Win rounds slicker than snot. The rifle uses the regular military mags and it holds 6 rounds with no issues.

    John

  15. #75
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I'm taking the pig gun and the carbine out tomorrow!

    I have no idea where I am being taken but I must 'take my long range rifle'. Well, I'll take the butt screw driver with in case I have to carry them in my back pack.

    348 Winchester? That would work a treat! Larger case at lower pressure.

    From Hornady;
    250 GR. BAR FN, Hodgdon H4350, Cal .348", OAL 2.760"
    Min 55.0gr 2157fps 31,000 CUP
    Max 59.5gr 2328fps 35,700 CUP
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Bloodied the Pig Gun!

    Well, sort of - if shooting a koi carp counts!

    I did not purpose develope loads for it so I was surprized that it shot as well as it did but not good enough for hunting. However, the carbine for which I had test tube developed the loads shot really well - 1½ MOA at 110yds (with horrid open sights!) Bloodied that gun with three turkeys.

    The Pig Gun has a grey deposit in its muzzle area. The patches were failing in the bore. But I have some boolits and powder just for it - 245 grainers. It is a wonderful little gun to carry around.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  17. #77
    Boolit Bub
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    Was the koi carp in or out of a barrel?
    Only kiddin.
    I hope you find the answer to that pig gun cutting up the paper patches inside the bore, I would love to see the results of 245gn at 900+ fps on a feral pig.
    I'm still working on the reduced capacity brass for my 06. So far consistency is the problem but I will get there eventually.

  18. #78
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Was the koi carp in or out of a barrel?
    Pretty much, actually. A walk along the river bank, a pink form under the water surface - exit one koi carp!

    I'll get the patch problem sorted OK. It's the accuracy I'm worried about. I've had patches coming out almost whole from this gun too but at lower pressure levels.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  19. #79
    Boolit Man
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    I was just thinking,
    Maybe the pressure is to low, the bullet is not bumping up at all and the rifling cant cut the paper.
    Try some blackpowder or something like it.
    Suppressed blackpowder now there's a concept!!!

    I must need meds or something.


    John

  20. #80
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatman View Post
    I was just thinking,
    Maybe the pressure is to low, the bullet is not bumping up at all and the rifling cant cut the paper.
    Try some blackpowder or something like it.
    Suppressed blackpowder now there's a concept!!!

    I must need meds or something.
    John
    John,
    You only need meds if you want to be normal...





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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check