Anybody use Hodgdon Longshot?

[geargnasher]

This didn't really seem to fit any other category better than this one, so I'll ask it here.

I was searching for a pistol powder for .45 Colt (standard pressure) that was slower than HS6 and fastster than 296/H110, maybe a fuzz faster than 2400 but meters better than Blue Dot. I bought a pound of Longshot based upon it's location in several burn rate tables I looked at, and started playing with it yesterday behind 300 grn Lee boolits.

Aside from there being very little pistol data available, I found the stuff very dense for it's burn rate, a safe charge of it is about equal to the same safe charge of Titegroup volume-wise, so I used Dacron tufts to keep it against the primer since it was less than half case volume.

So far it works well, using 7.5-8 grains with a grain of Dacron on top, very good accuracy with the Dacron, (better than without it for sure), and nice slow recoil like a good dose of 2400, only complaint is the hard, black, caked-on residue in the cylinder frame.

Anybody else work with Longshot much? Would you care to share your thoughts?

Gear

[RobS]

I worked with LS and it worked well with 185 grain hollow point j-bullets, but seemed a bit warm burning for cast out of the 45 acp (there is just better powders out there for the 45 auto). I also tried to use it for mid house loads in the 454 casull and I found that due to the density issues you are seeing I didn't like the idea of using a filler. While working up loads with LS I found more recoil at the same velocities vs other powders in both the 45 auto and 454 casull applications. I also had soot build up that you mentioned which is yet another reason I didn't pursue the continued use of LS. It would however be a good choice for heavy 40 S&W, 10mm or 9mm loads.

[gray wolf]

I chose it for the wifes 40 beretta 96-- had good luck with titegroup but I didn't want to mess with high preasure in the gun. I was told by Hodgon that long shot was great and the preasure was a-lot less. I use it for the forty. I have also used it for the 45 ACP with 230 gr. gold dots 3/10 under max with good results and full expantion.
I have some test loads in the 45 ACP with 200 and 228 grain lead--but I have not shot them yet and evaluated them. I think it is a safe powder depends on what you want.
I dont (think) it is sensitive to how it lays in the case--not sure on that--but my use gives me at least half case volume.

[fecmech]

I used it a lot in the 9MM and personally think it is the accuracy champ with cast in the 9. My most accurate loads with both 120 and 147-150 gr bullets was with LS and at jacketed velocities! I have not tried it in the any other handgun cartridges but it looks like it may have a niche in the 38 spl +P. The Hogdon powder guide shows it with a clear 100 fps advantage in the 125 gr XTP bullet over any other powder in the manual.

[ebg3]

I started using longshot in my 38 supercomp open gun and really liked it. I've also loaded a lot of heavy 12ga field loads with it. I also have a good .40 S&W load using 12gr LS behind a 135gr jhp for 1425fps out of my Glock 22. This load is straight from the Hodgdon manual and claims to be only 32,400psi.
I have thought about using it for a medium 240gr .44 mag load, it looks like 12.1grs will be around 1300fps with 34,500psi.
EG

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the replies, all.

Did some more testing with the .45 Colt and 300 Grain Lees today, this thing really shoots straight with this load and has the same amount of drop as 10 grains of BD with all else the same + Dacron filler at 50 yards. I can keep five on 1-1/4 inch centers at 25 yards and a best of 3 inches at 50, keep in mind the New Vaquero has Mt. Kilimanjaro for a front blade and the Grand Canyon for a groove in the topstrap, so if I can shoot a group 1/4th the width of the front blade I feel really good about myself!

I was just curious to see if anyone else had had good luck with the stuff (except for the acrid, stinking smoke and the black carbon smut on everything ) and if anyone else was using fillers.

Gear

[gray wolf]

Just a thought --could all the grime be from the filler?? and do you realy need it?
I have not seen that happen with longshot--but what do I know Eh.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I use 8.5 gr pushing 140 Lee SWC in my .357s. Its the best load I've found for my 4 5/8" NMBH. I don't shoot that gun well, but this load does get the best I can get out of it. I don't remember the chrono data, but I'm pretty sure its in the 1300s.

Longshot does meter well, and I've seriously thought about buying an 8# jug, but I still revert to my trio of Bullseye, Herco and 2400 for my revolvers.

Herco is much less dense, has close to the same burning rate, fills the case good, and I have plenty for now. In the future, especially if I went to a progressive, Longshot would get heavy consideration from me. No complaints.

[runfiverun]

aa#9 is about in that same range also.
i've used longshot in my 450 express with a 270 keith type and in my 45 colt but with j word boolits.
it does throw some speedy shotshell loads too.

[geargnasher]

Just a thought --could all the grime be from the filler?? and do you realy need it?
I have not seen that happen with longshot--but what do I know Eh.

Actually, I've wondered that myself. I've used Dacron before in .357 with Bullseye because I was afraid of SEE, but it didn't appear to have much soot there. I didn't clean the gun between workup sessions because of the soot, but maybe I'll try a few without Dacron after cleaning and compare. The folks above seem to have the same sooty issures without filler, so I doubt it makes much difference.

I didn't think about trying it in .357, I have a couple that need better workups done and 2400 isn't working well for either one so far, maybe the Longshot is worth a try.

Gear

[fredj338]

I used to load HS7 in my heavy 300gr 45colt loads & liked the accuracy. I haven't tried LS in the 45colt yet but love it in the 357sig & 10mm for full power loads. IMR4227 is also very good, but meters about as poorly as BD. Nothing wrong w/ 2400 either as long as you are going w/ 300gr bullets.

[Three44s]

A new Vaquero ....... that's a lighter pattern than the Blackhawk?

You mentioned soot. I had problems when I tried dacron w/ Titegroup in the .44 ..... got rid of the dacron and got rid of the soot ....... but then I do one other thing:

Back sometime before the dacron/soot ordeal, I had begun inside flashhole deburring the .44 cases. I was using some old Red Dot at the time with cast and it was dirty enough to get my goat. This treatment worked so well ........ I now do ALL my metalics as a matter of policy.

Best Regards

Three 44s

[EchoSixMike]

I use a lot of Longshot in 10mm Auto and 38 Super as well as heavy 12ga field loads, but not in 45Colt. I run titegroup for puff loads and go straight to 296 and H110 for the serious stuff. Seems to work pretty well, haven't noticed any unusual fouling issues. Certainly nothing like Unique. S/F....Ken M

[geargnasher]

A new Vaquero ....... that's a lighter pattern than the Blackhawk?

You mentioned soot. I had problems when I tried dacron w/ Titegroup in the .44 ..... got rid of the dacron and got rid of the soot ....... but then I do one other thing:

Back sometime before the dacron/soot ordeal, I had begun inside flashhole deburring the .44 cases. I was using some old Red Dot at the time with cast and it was dirty enough to get my goat. This treatment worked so well ........ I now do ALL my metalics as a matter of policy.

Best Regards

Three 44s

Yes, small frame gun. Keeping it to "standard" loads, also don't want to risk mixing with other, even weaker guns I own.

I tried again today after a quick clean, ten rounds without dacron, still sooty as heck. One other interesting thing, the lube star is gone and the bore appears dusty-dry instead of having a light coat of Felix lube with antimony wash like I'm used to seeing. Accuracy fell just a little bit, but no way to tell in just ten rounds if it's me or the load.

Gear

[bobke]

hey gnash-
any chance the load is not developing enough pressure to burn the charge entirely, hence the soot deposit? was working with a used but new to me contender in 45 colt yesterday afternoon at the range in bandera and found a black, sooty blowback at the breech that i'm pretty sure is from a significantly oversize chamber. the fired rounds from the contender will not even come close to fitting in my bisley or converted redhawk. the above from 270 gr hard swc and 11.5 hs6. last four shots from contender at 25yds could be covered with a nickel and the load shot good from bisley too, but was very smoky from bisley and blackish deposit in tc. any unburnt powder in cases with the longshot or could you tell with dacron filler? just thinking out loud.

[geargnasher]

Bob, wish I'd known, I would have gone to Bandera instead of the HCSSC Sunday, Great weather, wasn't it?

To answer your question, the inside of my cases with Longshot were amost squeakey-clean, just a hint of light grey dust. If loaded hot enough, like most powders, there is zero unburned residue in the cases. I bumped the charge up to 8.5 grains with the 300 Gr Lee, and finally got complete case sealing to the chamber (but cases still fell out of the chambers with only their own weight) and that stopped the sooting around the breechface like you describe with your TC. I think you were right, the load certainly smoked less with 8.5 grains.

HS6 is my alltime favorite "standard pressure" powder for the .45 Colt. The 11.5 of HS6 should be more than hot enough to seal a normal chamber with your load, I get total chamber sealing at around 9.5 grains with 255 grain boolits in all the .45 Colts I load for, methinks your TC has issues. Try decapping with a punch and base and just neck-sizing your cases enough to hold the boolits, then only use those cases in the TC. They will blow out to fit your chamber upon firing, and if you seat the boolits out to just engrave on chambering, you may get a big increase in accuracy as the case won't "lay" in the bottom of the oversized chamber anymore and will be properly aligned. If a full-length sized case head rattles around in the chamber you might put a 1/16" wide strip of celophane tape just forward of the case rim to tighten and center the fit during fire-forming only. The loaded round ought to look something akin to a .44-40 cartridge.

Also, if you have a Lee carbide sizer and a Lee universal decapper die, swap decapper rods and put the longer, universal rod all the way flush with the retention collet of the sizer, this will enable you to decap/neck size in one step. The RCBS dies will also work for this if you remove the locknut on the decapper pin and screw it into the die flush or just below. Be careful to "feel" the rod into the flash hole because it will wiggle some without the nut.

Gear

[bobke]

yup, going to have to get together some weekend and burn powder, no doubt. and you're right, i have no way around necksizing for the tc, as from my weak memory, it's .003-.005 over the size of fired cases from bisley or custom redhawk. i'd actually started just neck sizing enough to seat once fired starline brass in both bisley and rhawk, but will have to segregate the brass for the tc beyond that to insure best fit, little blowback and hopefully, improved accuracy. only have about 50 rds thru contender, so will definitely be spending r&d time with this gun at the range. three 45 colts and each has a specific diet, but shooting this particular load in two guns did work well and offers hope of one load for all. couldn't be that lucky, could i?

hs6 does look promising, but i've asked jm to see if he could round up some power pistol to try out, as i've heard good things about it and 45 colt, but very hard to find any in/around san antone. maybe gibsons in k'ville, there's little they don't have stuck in a corner somewhere, right? not short of others to try, but can't resist looking for the needle in a haystack.

[curioushooter]

I was looking at some data on 44 Special +P loads from Handloader #312. 9-9.7 of Hogdon Longshot supposedly does ~1150 FPS with a RimRock 255 grain SWCGC--basically a Lyman 429244. This is just a clip under what 2400 does. And 2400 never fails to shoot black soot everywhere and leave a lot of unburnt powder and a little leading....something my heavy loads with 8.5 grains of Unique never do. I've been working with the Lyman 429421 from Arsenal, the H&G 503 from MP, and the 429244 from MP. My goal is to get these puppies going at least 1100 FPS from my 6.5" 624, with good accuracy, and without fouling up everything, and do it in hot and cold.

Longshot features prominently in Brian Pearce's article as both accurate and achieving near top velocities, only being slightly edged out by much slower powders like 2400, H110, AA#9. One of the principles I have found useful in loading for handguns is to use the fastest burning powder that will safely get the velocity you want with the bullet you have. This is why I have done so much with Unique and PowerPistol. Longshot is a bit slower than both, according to burn rate charts it's between BlueDot and 2400. My experiments with Blue Dot have dissapointed...it does hardly any better than Unique or PowerPistol (about 1075 FPS muzzle). Longshot is a heavy shotgun powder. But Hodgdon doesn't say much else. Lee has it's bulk density approximately that of BlueDot. I have read it is granular and meters nicely.

What else can any longshot user say about it for use in a moderate pressure big bore load? 22-25kPSI 44 Special/45Colt etc...

Has it proven accurate? Clean? Temp stable? Problems with fliers and whatnot?

[fcvan]

44 special is no slouch cartridge. After all, Elmer developed the 44 M based on 44 Special and loaded in modern steel frame revolvers. What folks often think 'more is better' the old adage of '40 caliber or better, 200 grains or better, 1000 fps or better' still holds. There are too many documents to list that supports this prospect. More deer were taken with a 44-40 before the 30-30 came around. We just don't have those records, just results.

After all, the 45 Govt. (what we know today as 45 Colt) was designed to give 'through and through penetration' of a horse from a 7 1/2" pistol, with BP, at 255 grains and 1000 fps. The 45 Govt. was necked down to .427 as the 44-40 W for the populace. 38-40 was actually 40 cal. at 200 grains, and was favored by Law Enforcement back in the 1870s/80s.

Back to the 44, quite the cartridge, especially in BP. I don't have a 44 (wife does) but I do in 38-40 WCF. Man-stopper, deer slayer, the 44 WCF was the deal. In BP (or equivalent) is still the bee's knees.