Lee 405 HB 45-70

[SgtDog0311]

Old thread but a good one!

I posted this question already on another thread (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...lat-Nose/page2) but reposting here just in case it garner’s other’s experience. “I shot bullets I cast from this mold at six hundred yards for an incredible 5-round group (incredible for me anyway - I'd be ignorant of the group but for good spotter on the scope). Trouble is, that particular mold had been worked on and was no longer a hollow base; I'd still like to steal it from my buddy.

If anyone shooting this bullet at longer distances would report on it I'd sure like to hear about how it holds stability out at longer distance, say 500yds and beyond. Both my friend and I are considering the unaltered version.”

[Leadlauncher]

Just saying G,day from Down Under. Picked up a Marlin 45 70 JM recently and about to cast the Lee 405 HB for it. Will post results here if that is ok.

cheers

[Oklahoma Rebel]

well, whether or not it was made to obturate I know miss-spelled , I have found it to do so in my marlin 1895 45-70 and is the most accurate boolit I have so far.

[SgtDog0311]

Leadlauncher- good luck with yours and do post your results. We'd be interested. OK Kid, thanks for posting yours.

We did both buy that mold. I didn't get along with mine but I didn't try very long either. Kept having trouble with fill-out at the base.

My good friend is more proficient, more experienced and more resourceful and more patient; he did just fine. He did round off (or maybe flattened) the very tip of the cone that formed the hollow base. We both had trouble with pinholes at the point of that cone for some reason.

This week I'm heading back out to Cheyenne to try my hand again at that big dinger in picture. I won't have any thing over 350gr and I won't see a group like that again.

[shootrj2003]

Sounds like a lot of guys have a lot of good ideas about why maybe that hole,dimple or hollow base is supposed to obturate or just balance the weight properly,as long as it is accurate in my Marlin I guess it's good enough until the Army records disclose why someone put it there,probably some private with a center punch.

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds like a lot of guys have a lot of good ideas about why maybe that hole,dimple or hollow base is supposed to obturate or just balance the weight properly,as long as it is accurate in my Marlin I guess it's good enough until the Army records disclose why someone put it there,probably some private with a center punch.

The dish cavity (it is improperly referred to as a "hollow base") was, in fact, put there to regulate the weight of the bullet while keeping the exterior dimensions consistent. There is no mention of the dish being there to obturate ala' a Minie' HB bullet.

The original concept at the time was the entire bullet would "obturate" from the force of the BP during acceleration. It was found out that dis not happen most often which resulted in the greater mass of the 500 gr M1882 bullet. That bullet does/did "obturate" to fill the bore/groove diameter of the barrel. The M1882 bullet also has a "dish" as to regulate the weight while keeping the exterior dimensions consistent.

A search in any of the manuals ["Prescriptions for the use of the M1873 Springfield Rifle"] or well documented books on the Springfield M1873 Rifle will have an arsenal platt drawing of the bullet. The reason for the dish is so stated on those platt drawings. The arsenal bullets were swaged with the dish being swaged in during that process. The canalure grooves were rolled in with a canalure tool after swaging.

Not a "good idea" but fact.

BTW; the Lee bullet was designed/dimensioned by Spence Wolf based on the later M1873 405 gr arsenal bullets. Given it is a cast bullet with larger lube grooves than the original's canalured grooves the Wolf designed Lee bullet is longer. Thus, the "dish" is a bit deeper to maintain the 405 gr weight than is the dish on the original arsenal bullets. On later contract 45-70 Gvmt ammunition we find some of the swaged bullets also had a meplat. However, the arsenal swaged bullets did not have the meplat.

Addendum; Here's from the manual "Description And Management Of The Springfield Rifle, Carbine And Army Revolvers", dated 1874..... right from the horses mouth so to speak.....

Attachment 263288

[Moustacher]

Has anyone had success with this boolit in an 1895?

The nose is certainly round with a very small meplat. I have yet to cast it but the flat point seems to be slightly smaller than a large rifle primer. Is this a concern?

If you search for this mold you will find images that indicate a much flatter nose than what my mold would cast. Is it possible Lee changed this mold at any point from a flat to a round nose or vice versa?

[Mark Daiute]

I'm late to the party. Has anyone mentioned that many of these cast at .460 and therein lies their virtues