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Thread: Should Paper Patched Bullets Be Lubricated?

  1. #41
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    All of this cartridge building entails a bit of "experiment of one", and one needs to see what works best for one, as always. Wet or dry patches for slicks? Try both, see what works best for it all (the cartridge, the gun, you - and numero uno is consistent accuracy).

    After some years of messing around with .45-70 PPB cartridge build processes and their components, I use a BACO JIM444530E cast at 1:16 alloy, wrapped in Seth Cole 7#, the cleaned inside and out just fired and not sized Starline brass (new brass is reformed to fit the custom DT/BD PPB chamber - standard .45-70 brass will not fit) that's initially had it's flash hole reamed is drop filled with 80.5 grains of digitally weighed Swiss 1-1/2F for case compaction, a .060" LDPE wad on top, lightly .060" compressed (on the die press, for consistency).

    The dry wrapped PPB slips .1" into the case mouth, on top of the LDPE wad, and is loose enuf to wiggle around and fall out. It goes onto the press and a modified Lyman .45-70 taper die just barely squeezes the case mouth to barely hold in the PPB when the cartridge is held upside down by its head - the PPB is loose enuf to twist around, be removed, be twisted back on and still not fall out.

    Upon firing, bullets shed their paper like confetti and punch clean holes in all paper targets from 200 yards to waaay out there. I don't see any way that the dry paper would travel downrange with the slick. I have never been able to recover a fired slick, but I'd like to, and will work on doing that next year. I have experimented with lightly rubbing the paper of a finished cartridge for water resistance during precipitation days at the range and it seems to work without hindering accuracy. ALL fired brass is annealed before reloading, always. To me, that is an important step. In fact, all new brass is annealed before reforming to my .45-70 PPB chamber.

    Part of my just-fired case preparation is to check each one for growth. I have and use a dedicated Wilson micrometer trimmer and it might take 8 to 10 firings before an estimated .0001" needs removing. I'm WAY more interested in case interior cleaning than its exterior and the only cleaning device that does that inside of 30 minutes is an ultra-sonic, using Hornady brass cleaning solution. Part of all of this is how cases are handled immediately after firing. I always want to mitigate BP residue from Everything ASAP. YMMV.

  2. #42
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have a 45-70 H & R SHIKARI single shot rifle, wanted to try paper patched bullets, and lengthen the chamber for long bullets, what is the first thing I need to do?

  3. #43
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    I will keep pressures low, like a trapdoor load

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbear1950 View Post
    I have a 45-70 H & R SHIKARI single shot rifle, wanted to try paper patched bullets, and lengthen the chamber for long bullets, what is the first thing I need to do?
    1. Buy paper 8 or 9 lb airmail or tracing paper is best. Some cotton content usually helps, but no need for 100% cotton.
    2. Measure your bore's land diameter
    3. Buy a mould that will match your bore and paper to produce a bullet that is land diameter when patched, or 1-2 thousandths of an inch over (in which case you may need to size)
    4. DO NOT lengthen your chamber. Do not touch it.
    5. Load 80-86 gr of Swiss powder
    6. Compress with a 0.06" LDPE wad just enough to give you 0.1" of case space
    7. Seat bullet by hand
    8. Crimp just barely and if necessary to make the cartridge easy to handle.
    9. Shoot

    I realize I missed the primer seating step, but you got that...

    Easy as pie.

  5. #45
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    I have a question, for you paper patched loading guys, do you cast your own bullets, or buy them? I want to try and load paper patched bullets, and fire them in my H & R SHIKARI RIFLE

  6. #46
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    Do any of you load 45-70 paper patched bullets? Do you buy or cast them? How do you size them? I do have a 45-70 sizer, but is not a smaller than normal sizer

  7. #47
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    I bought some paper, cotton paper, recommended by the midway usa guy as he was paper patching some bullets. Is that swiss powder easy to get. And I realize you are talking about black powder, right?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbear1950 View Post
    Do any of you load 45-70 paper patched bullets? Do you buy or cast them? How do you size them? I do have a 45-70 sizer, but is not a smaller than normal sizer
    You can size paper patched bullets with the paper on. Thus, you want a sizer that is an exact match for your bore diameter. Better yet, is buy a mold that is just the right size and don't size them at all (see steps 1-3, above)

  9. #49
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    what is the LDPE WAD?

  10. #50
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    so i could size the bore with a micrometer or what to determine bore diameter? I do realize a chamber cast won't work

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbear1950 View Post
    what is the LDPE WAD?
    LDPE is low density polyethylene plastic. John Walter's wads at buffaloarms.com will do nicely. They will also sell the powder and molds. One stop shopping.

  12. #52
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    what is a BACO mold?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbear1950 View Post
    so i could size the bore with a micrometer or what to determine bore diameter? I do realize a chamber cast won't work

    Not sure why a chamber cast won't work but I like to take a larger muzzleloading roundball and tap it into the muzzle about 1/2 way and then pop it back out.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbear1950 View Post
    what is a BACO mold?
    Buffaloarms.com
    Buffalo Arms Company = BACO

  15. #55
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    what about brass? can I use standard brass or do I need to order special brass

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbear1950 View Post
    what about brass? can I use standard brass or do I need to order special brass
    Don't make this hard. Any decent brass will be fine. Winchester and Starline are most common. Others are fine too.

  17. #57
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    One thing I passed over that is easily missed is to pick a mold that not only will fit with your barrel's diameter but is also a good match between your barrel's twist rate and the intended application. It is easy to buy a target bullet that is much too long. I know nothing about the twist rate of your rifle. Either measure it directly or contact the manufacturer and find out.

  18. #58
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    Couple of videos on the Martini forums showing the dipping their paper patch bullets in some time of lubricant immediately before loading.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack View Post
    Couple of videos on the Martini forums showing the dipping their paper patch bullets in some time of lubricant immediately before loading.

    There may be videos, but they aren't what you want to do - at least to start. Exactly what are your shooting goals with this? But meanwhile, you have plenty of info here to get more than just halfway down the road.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentD View Post
    There may be videos, but they aren't what you want to do - at least to start. Exactly what are your shooting goals with this? But meanwhile, you have plenty of info here to get more than just halfway down the road.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoOSe3PiD1I @13:58 inter alia

    General interest paper patching

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtYQslXdTrs&t=57s
    Last edited by Shanghai Jack; 06-07-2022 at 08:33 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check