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Thread: 40 cal from 9mm easiest by far and cheap!

  1. #21
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    Every time I reread this post I find more ?s Hope I can answer them for you all. If I miss one post it again for me.

    Warf73, love your signature! chocolats vs. jalapenos

    The video is how it goes when everything works the way it is supposed to. Let me say that make a bullet from a brass jacket has been an adventure for me. It has been a very challenging task with nights of extreem frustration, some blood, and plenty of choice words but when it worked out the way it is supposed to I have stood up and cheered too. Felt like every time the bullet pops out of the die it is like opening a pressent, that is when it worked. Funny thing is that a night when nothing seemed to work I could take a short break and come back using same tools and then everything worked fine. I really learned in this hobby when things are not going well you need to stand up leave and take a break before you break somthing. I have got my thumb caught between the punch and bottom of die when my press handel decided to cycle sending the ram and punch upword. Have also brooke 3 presses and 2 dies so there can be many challenges to this hobby (the presses where cheep alunimum that I had in my colection) I'll post the pics.

    luober,

    Yes and no with the presses. I total broke a cheaper yet good RCBS cast alunimum press by using a biger handel and trying to make 44s. The reloading press has week spots. First it was the junction of the handel and the conection it makes to the ram. Then the frame on my RCBS. The support rods that hold the handel to the press will bend the bolts used to hold it together. The rockchucker is a better design for this. My Redding Big Boss is a cast iron press yet the ram itself has to be made from some of the softest metal I have ever used, a step up from tin I think so swagign with extreem PSI has stressed the spot where you insert the shell holder. Don't know about the steel used in the RCBS or Lee clasic cast but has to be better then the Redding. All those cut outs for primmer arms and dispenscers weekens the ram as you can imagine.

    As far as warping or bendign the cast iron press I think the die will blow before that happens.

    I did make a custom arm for my press and stronger larger bolts to conect everything with but it was only because of the design of the press. I think the rockchucker and Lee clasic cast has a better set up.

    Brian
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  2. #22
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    I seem to be one post behind here. Accuracy from brass cartridge jacketed bullets I have found to be pretty good not match grade but good. From a 40 S&W I am not expecting much better then 1 cantalope MOA at 25 yrds but have been plesently supprised before.

    "Elkhunter" here has said his bullets from brass cases have all been very good shooters.

    I do plan to shoot these from a Hi-Point 40 cal carbine just for fun as you can see it does not take a lot for me to make them. Just got to find the gun now. I always seem to buy the carrage before the horse.

    BT
    Last edited by BT Sniper; 12-16-2009 at 03:33 AM.
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  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    I was thinking about the utility of the bullet more than the making. At .705 you are a good bit longer than any 40 caliber bullet out there. Hornady 200's only run about .670"

    I think you'd be better off with a flat nose so the length could be shorter.


    I tried CH 3 times, and got their machine 3 times, I hate answering machines. I'll make my own set, but am going to make them point down I think, and form that long round nose shape that I want.

  4. #24
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    BT- question for you at bottom of pg 1

  5. #25
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    Richbug,

    Yeh that was somthing I too was concerned with and seems to be the case when making bullets from brass jackets. Caution is just going to have to be used when reloading and attention to COL. I purposly made the HP shallow trying for sorter bullet. As we will not be getting these bulllets up to a high FPS and not worried about expansion a flat nose would probably be better.

    As I measure the bullet I get .670 from the base to the tip of the jacket where the protruding lead tip extends another .035 so I think with less lead (120 grain vs 125 grain core) we could surly get this length down to a managable size. Could probably even go 10 grains less and if I was able to compress the jacket a bit get it down further still. As is everything with this hobby I still have some tryle and error to go in the perfection of this bullet.

    Here is a neat little trick I have learned...... since we are using a case with a extration grove for a jacket we can mount the formed bullet in a case trimmer and shorten the nose ogive. I'll trim one down to .670 and see what it looks like and weight. I have a flat nose punch I'll try that too see what I come up with.

    Thanks

    BT
    Last edited by BT Sniper; 12-16-2009 at 03:35 AM.
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  6. #26
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    Striker,

    Yes those are all the dies you would need and all the dies I use to make these bullets with. I have not used the core seat die for this caliber yet although it may not be needed it can only help you make a better bullet. As you can see a few $ may be saved if you just get the "swage" die for .400 in the 101 series of dies though like I said having a core seating die will not hurt you a bit for a few extra $ you can learn how to do it correctly as well. Either way $130 is very reasonable for the set.

    It does take a mallet/hammer to eject any of these bullets untill you can come up with a simple design with some allthread rod and some scrap metal like you see on my press that will eject the bullet on the up stroke of the press.

    And ofcourse there is everything else too that you will need that I mentioned before but as far as your order for dies with CH-4d that would do it, you are on your way.

    As far as HP or soft nose I think unless you are concerned with terminal expansion for hunting purposes the HP may not be needed and being that this will be a long for weight bullet the flat nose may actually help us keep the length down a bit.

    I will still experiment and I know that if we use less lead in the core we could use the HP design. If you are good with a dremmil or file you can always file down the HP cone to turn it into a Flat Nose design but it is harder to go the other way from FN to HP. I have only ever bought the complete set for the 44 cal and I got the HP so I don't know what the softnose looks like but I could easily turn my HP design into a Soft point/Flat nose with a quick touch of a file or dremmil.

    Good luck to you and anyone that pursue this hobby and if you can roll with the difficult/challenging parts it will get to be a lot of fun. We certainly have a lot of great guys here with a welth of knowledge on the subject avialble to help. I'll certainly do what I can. I don't claim to be an expert here either as there are many with more knowledge on the subject. I do like to show that it can be done for resonalble cost and can be fun. Do your research on the forums here as everything you could possibly need to know is posted somewhere (finding it can be time consuming somtimes and ofcourse feel free to ask ?s).

    Good shooting,

    BT
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  7. #27
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    Starting from nothing.

    RCBS Rockchucker press $130
    CH-4d 101 series .400 die set $130 ( could just get the swage die and save a bit)
    Lee 2 cavity .356 120 grain mold $20
    Lee 9mm expander die $10
    20lb Lee lead melting pot bottom poor $80 (thought it was cheaper sorry)
    digital scale optional $80 estamate
    1000 rounds of 9mm brass $25
    50 lb lead say about $40
    Stainless steel collender to anneal brass in BBQ $15
    Lanolin to lube case estamate $20
    a vibrating case cleaner is nice $40 (Wow on clearance at midway for half price $*!& sold out)

    Can't think of much more at the moment and a lot of these things anyone that reloads (you would have to if you are going to make these, I can be a bit slow) should allready have. These are retail prices I found on the web too, I bet most could be found at half the cost or less used minus the dies.

    OK been on this computer to long today off to make some bullets.

    BT
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  8. #28
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    What exactly does the core seat die do? What exactly is a base punch?

    Does CH offer any mod that will eject the bullet on the upstroke if I don't want to use a mallet to eject the finished bullet? What did you do to achieve this?

    Thanks for all the info.

  9. #29
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    The base punch or swage punch as it is labled in the CH parts section ( check there web page in the bullet thread under 101 swage die parts list #10) is what is held in place by the shell holder on the ram of your reloading press. It pushes the bullet into the die. You can see it in the pic of my press that the bullet is sitting on top of after being formed.

    The core seat die properly secures the lead core to the inside of the jacket as well as brings everything to with a couple thousands of final bullet diameter. It does most of the work and by design can handle the extra force needed to fill out the core and jacket to allmost final diameter so the only work the "swage" die has to do is bump it up the final thousandth and form the point. Being that the 9mm case is allready so close to .400 and if you are able to properly anneal (soften) the case and are willing to subject your point forming swage die to a bit more pressure it dosen't seem to be a problem turning out decent bullets by skipping the core seating step. I guess it is just a lazy way of doing thing that only saves one step in the process yet cuts the production time in half. Probably a little hard on the swage die too but I have not had a swage die give out on me yet because I was skipping the core seat step. Granted I would only recamend this with the 40 from 9mm and 44 from 40 S&W projects since the case dimintions are so close.

    I have not seen any thing avialable comercialy to eject the bullet on the up stroke. It was fairly easy for me to make and I'm sure myself or someone else could be convenced to make one. As you can see it is just 2 pieces of all thread, 8 nuts, 2 pieces of steel, and a 1/4 in bolt to eject everything with. The trick is getting the holes to line up and fit it to the ram of the press.

    If I was really ambitious I would offer these upgraded parts for the CH dies and bullet ejectors. Just need to find some time. I think it would be a pretty good set up and then you could just by the swage die by it's self for $50. Offcourse then you would have to buy the upgraded parts from me. That may be somthing I'll look into.
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  10. #30
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    I have a friend with a lathe and mill. If I was really good I would figure out a quick fast way remove the rim at the base of the bullet. That would shave about 15 grains and shorten by .1 to get (guessing here on weight) a 175 grain JHP bullet .605 in length.
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  11. #31
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    Tryed some different weight cores and figure you can go from 105-130 grains in lead core weight with a standard well annealed brass 9mm case. Any more and it gets pretty long, any less and you start to compress the brass jacket since there is less lead to fill it up with. compressing the jacket alot can cause some problems in the form of either wrinkles in the final bullet or to much pressure on your equipment.

    These different weight cores made bullets from 165-190 grains. You can easily make them lighter but I would reccamend trimming the brass case a bit first.

    Was able to get the length down to .640 with the lighter bullets and still a small hollow point.

    I hope I get a 40 S&W soon!

    Good shooting

    BT
    Last edited by BT Sniper; 12-16-2009 at 03:39 AM.
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  12. #32
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    Here is a few pics from my learning experiences. Just to show I am not perfect and it can be challenging some times. Also found some good pics of my press with modifications and the large hammer I will never have to swing again. That was one of the stand up a cheer moments when I no longer had to wake the wife with the loud banging on the dies.







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  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Direct Link to Video

    Here's the direct link for the video for anyone else that would like to save it to their hard drive:
    Right Click, Save As

    Got it by going to ShareThisVideo, More, GetLinkCode, HTMLForWebpagesAndBlogs. Then just deleted the unneeded HTML stuff. You can watch flv files with VLC (you'll probably want the Windows binary).

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    This is such a cool project, though it pains my heart to see 9mm brass used in such a way as that's what I'll be reloading here shortly.

    Interesting about your comment on reloading presses -- I've always thought of the Reddings as basically only second the the Co-Ax. Also found you commends on the CH dies interesting -- Have you posted a thread on your die improvements?

    I was considering getting into swaging by going with a Co-Ax and CH dies, but your postings have revealed the weakness of this route, particularly was I was planning on wheel weights as being by lead source.


    Time-wise, it's a bummer you have to cast first with this method. I wonder if it would be possible to cast lead wire somehow, or cast directly tubing. I assume for guys with deep pockets there are ways to make lead wire sans the melting process.
    Last edited by Dannix; 12-16-2009 at 06:29 AM.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    BT I see you have some RC airplane blood in ya


    Dannix as for the cores and brass, well you can used berdan 9mm brass. I have quite a bit saved up for projects like this.
    For cores you can buy lead wire but for WW just casting the cores is pretty fast. Nothing wrong with the bullet mold for cores. Pretty handy really. I think it would be tough to extrude WW alloy into wire. Cant say that Ive tried it though

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Didn't noticed the Futuba box until you mentioned it. Just thinking about it makes me want to put together an old fashioned balsa kit.

    Ooh, good call on berdan brass. After reading a bit here I'm kicking myself for not picking up 22LR brass at the range. Also going to start saving used primers and giving DYI primers a go, just for yucks.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    He has a few airframes hanging up in the background of the video as well.


    Anymore I try to get about any brass. I havent resorted to picking up all the 22lr yet but I do save what I shoot

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    Dannix,
    Don't get a kit, get blues!
    I scratch built for years. I loved the 1/4scale. Sailplanes mostly.
    RCM Magazine has lots of blues from a long time ago to now.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy
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    Bt-I've watched the video over and over and I still don't see how your addition makes the bulle drop free. Can you explain how it works.

    Also, before you added it, did the bullet get stuck in the die or on the base punch?

  20. #40
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    that has got to be one of the most awesome things I have learned!! I don't personally own a 40 but i got a 357sig so i could get another barrel.

    now i do save my 22lr cases from time to time, what can i make with those little boogers? I got quite a few 223's and 243. throw your knowledge my way and into my dumpster some call a brain BT!!!
    " I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere"
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check