Blackhorn 209 and saboted bullet test results

[frontier gander]

UC i wish you'd post some good pics of what the Accura's can do.

300gr xtp, 120gr RS (88 weight) mmp-24 sabot, cci inline mzl primers.

3 shots @ 100 yards, No swabbing between shots, zero cool down.


250gr Thor conicals, 105gr Pyro RS, Winchester 777 primers. 3 shots, 100 yards, a few minutes cool down time between each shot.

Outside to outside,


My brother in law with his first Inline Mzl buck he shot at 175 yards with the Thor load above.

[StarMetal]

That's dang nice shooting and nice buck you got there. I'm impressed with your group.

Joe

[Underclocked]

Why should I? You covered it pretty well. Now stop shining that steel with Flitz. Use a dull wax. No wonder your rifle glows in the dark.

[frontier gander]

LMAO. But it looks purdy!

[Willbird]

OK well MY group is not nearly as pretty, but it is fired 1 shot per day over 3 days. Based on where the nearly 4" group is centered I moved 2.5 moa right, and will fire 3 more shots over the next 3 days.

4" at 75 yards is sure nothing to brag on . BUT I did ream out the carbon in the breech plug between shots 2 and 3, so that gives me an out .

Bill

[Willbird]

Those Thor conicals look cool, have you found any BC information for them ??

Bill

[Underclocked]

I think Thor will still send you a sample pack of the .50s they offer so you can find out which one fits your bore the best.

http://www.thorbullets.com/Home_Page.html The BC should be roughly the same as for the parent Barnes bullet.

I've learned not to concern myself with BC in a muzzleloader. Most shots will certainly be under 100 yards in most areas of the country... and at that range, BC just doesn't really matter. Expansion/performance on deer and accuracy are my concerns.

I also like to be able to blow tree limbs off on occasion.

Willbird, are you thoroughly cleaning the rifle between those daily shoots? I would do that then get all the oil out of the bore with alcohol patches followed by a few dry patches before loading. A blast of dry air from a compressor wouldn't hurt either. Be totally consistent on your powder charge (weigh them if need be) and do everything the exact same way each time. The other thing I would be leery of is whether that bullet/sabot might be TOO tight and you are winding up with uneven seating pressure.

I think both you and the rifle can do much better.

[Willbird]

NO I am not cleaning the gun between shots. It shoots about 2" high at 75 yards from a clean dry bore, that is no good for hunting if I need to field reload .

Thor did say they would send me some sample bullets.

I know the rifle and I can do better just setting down to shoot groups.....typically they run about 1.25 to 1.5 inches for either 3 or 5 shot groups at 75 yards, BUT that is a different exercise than simply walking outside with the gun you loaded the day before, and setting down at the bench and carefully firing ONE shot .

The wind could be blowing completely different directions each day for one thing. I know that the bullet I am using will drift 1.3" at 75 yards in a 10mph wind, so that could open up a group spaced over several days by 3" or even more.

Thor also replied back and said the BC for the 250 grain is .220, and the 300 grain is .200, which is not the same as the Barnes spitfire TMZ I use now. It is a decent BC number but different than the hornady bullets where the heavier bullet has a higher BC.

Hornady 350 interlock FPB has a BC of .285
Hornady 300 interlock FPB has a BC of .245

I like to look at what bullets do downrange, and to me it does not matter if that means 50 yards or 500....my goal is always to get the most energy on target, and ideally the least amount of wind drift possible.................the RANGE to the target can be measured pretty close.....the WIND however is a fickle thing that is a real bear to get a handle on.

To me a HUNTING muzzle loader will not be cleaned in the field between shots.

Bill

[Willbird]

OK I shot (3) shots today, one that was loaded since yesterday, and 2 more about as quickly as I could load, it was COLD out there. I dry fired the first shot by accident (forgot to prime) and everything looked great, no flinch or jump to the crosshairs.

The first shot is the one in the center, the next two are the ones about 1/4" apart for a total group of 1.5" at 75 yards.

As a refresher the load is 84 grains of BH209 (120 grain equiv), a Barnes 290 grain spitfire tmz bullet/sabot, and a WW 209 primer. This combo has a measured muzzle velocity of 2011 fps.

Also for the sake of clarity, when I spoke of the sabots being tight.........I can seat them by gripping the ramrod itself with both hands, I'm not having to DRIVE them down in there .

I'm getting low on BH209 powder now...there is about 50 shots in a can and I generally carry about 10 quick reloaders on my person and in my fanny pack I take with me. So I do not have a lot of powder left to spare.

Bill

[Willbird]

I always use the TC quick shot reloaders before, but I just got two

4-N-1 Quickshot™- Cat. No. 7057

and I really like them so far.

Mine are black, not red in color.

Bill

[Underclocked]

I've got some of those red ones. I developed a talent for pinching that fold of skin between my thumb and index finger when using the built in short starter.

On mine, the cap keeps wanting to come loose. So I just carry powder in some 7ml capped vials and a couple of bullets in another vial. I don't believe there is such a thing as "Speed Loading" in my muzzleloading world and I often advise folks to throw the entire contents of the first speed loader on the ground as it has a calming effect.

But will you start your hunt with a cold, clean bore or with a fouled bore??

[Willbird]

I will start my hunt with a cold fouled bore if using BH209.

If I were to use 777 I would start my hunt with a bore cleaned with water, followed with 92% ispopropyl alcohol (clean and dry).

Once we get past hunting season I am going to experiment with bore conditions to try to find one for BH209 that can be artificially reproduced to drop a shot more in the group. It might be just as simple as popping 2-3 caps after cleaning. Also the THor bullets having no sabots may behave differently.

I agree there is no "speed loading" .

The first year I hunted ML I shot at a moving small doe or button that was honestly coming right at me (south park reference), missed it, reloaded....but could not get the fired 209 out to recap the gun......and got to watch some nice bucks play in the creek 50 yards away then leave....

So now I carry one of the CVA metal primer "forks" around my neck on a length of paracord . Well taped with electrical tape so it doesn't not make a metal on metal "tink"

So far all of my quick loads still hold a primer....but I carry about 10 spares in a polaroid 35mm film can partially filled with TP.

It just struck me the other day that some day those film cans will not be very plentiful at all.........more and more folks going to digital

[Underclocked]

Those tubes are pretty cheap and you can carry them in a shotshell box. Work great for carrying premeasured loads to the range - and for carrying a few in your pocket while hunting.

LaneNebraska sells 5ml and 10ml tubes with various colored caps. It's better to contact him directly rather than buy from him off eBay. He'll make you a better price as a forum user. He posts at MM, HuntingNet, and a few others.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/hunt...age-tubes.html

Or you can just buy some yourself from any number of places. I prefer 7ml tubes as they fit well in shotgun shell plastic boxes (12 gauge), they hold ~110 grains volumetric of powder, hold a couple of sabot'd bullets, and fit in butt stock shell holders. Besides, I started the tube craze by ordering 2000 of the 7ml for myself and a bunch of guys over on the Hunt America forums a few years back. I've still got quite a few left of my share.

I carry my primers in a Tedd Cash straight-line 209 primer holder. Works well with any muzzleloader that uses 209s so far as I can tell.

Here's a good source for tubes of many sizes http://www.testtubesonline.com/7ml_S.../428-0001w.htm I linked to the 7ml.

[Willbird]

I have a fair collection of 58 caliber "caplugs" that I got from a guy with a 58 caliber muzzle loader, same deal, they fit in shotgun shell boxes nicely, you plug them with the minie bullet.

Those are some decent looking tubes.

Some of the BR shooters used to use GLASS tubes with screw on lids.

I once knew a lady who worked at a place that made 2 liter soda bottles, all those types of bottles start out like then, then they are blown out bigger

http://www.testtubesonline.com/Baby_.../207-0037w.htm

[Willbird]

The 10oz bottle of BH209 I have been using was purchased at Cabelas in Dundee, MI. It was $29.95......which I did not consider HORRIBLE price when both powder valley or Grafs wants 26.95 plus hazmat and shipping.

Well we stopped in to Basspro in Rossford, OH last night.....HOLY COW they have their BH209 marked at 44.95 per bottle . I had a $25 gift card for basspro that I spent on some other stuff.

Even the 4 in 1 loaders were outragously priced at Basspro, $15 instead of $10 at Cabelas.....

I will pay a little more for "gimme now"...which the 4 in ones can be had online for $7 or $8...


Bill

[Underclocked]

Bass Pro is best left to fishermen.

Check Powder Valley, Inc for the BH209. A buddy and I just splt 10 bottles of BH209 and a 1000 Cheddite 209 primers. Total for all was just under 301 with HAZMAT and shipping to Mo.

Still horrible, but not the torture you would get at Bass Pro.

[Willbird]

Yup that is a future plan for sure. 1000 primers will last awile .

I am thinking about getting a limbsaver pre fit recoil pad for the Omega....that thing just plain KICKS . Took a shot at a coyote Sunday morning about sunup but missed him, he was 150 yards out....he was loping across the field....I whistled at him and he stopped long enough for me to take a shot.....bet he never makes that mistake again .

Bill

[Underclocked]

I bought either 3 or 4 of those Omega rifles shortly after they first came out. A couple were for friends and one of those friends still has his and likes it. The one I chose for myself was just the plain-jane synthetic and stainless model. The rifle fit me so badly and that trigger guard was so tiny that my shoulder, jaw, and trigger hand all took a beating. Ordered a Simms pad and it just plain didn't fit. Simms was no help either. Wound up getting rid of all of them and can't say I've regretted that decision.

I've got a G2 Contender in .45. That little rifle also kicks like a mule but a Simms pad did fit reasonably well and tamed it down enough to be tolerable. I still don't go beyond a 275 grain bullet with moderate charges. Pretty fond of that little rifle even if it has tortured me some.

[Willbird]

The absolute worst gun I have ever fired as far as recoil goes is my Savage 24v 222/20 gauge firing slugs in the 20 gauge barrel, it will bring tears to your eyes after a half dozen rounds, and I enjoy shooting 375 H&H and even a few 458's I have fired....

The savage is so brutal because that lower shotgun bbl has it's bore centerline so low, the 20 gauge is so bad I simply cannot imagine what the 12 gauge must be like. it is about 2x worse than a 12 gauge pump gun with slugs.

The Omega ain't THAT bad.

I do not think that breaking the gun in half to reprime is an improvement.

My brother in law has an Encore with the pro hunter stock....it is not bad to shoot the few times I have fired it.

Bill

[Willbird]

OK for the record the limbsaver recoil pad sold for the Omega/encore/black diamond fit my rifle perfectly. I have the black plastic stock.