Blackhorn 209 and saboted bullet test results

[Willbird]

OK as I said on another thread I got ahold of some Blackhorn 209 powder to try in my TC Omeag rifle.

The TC Omega has a 28" long barrel, with a 1/28 twist.

I set up my crono with the start screen 20 feet from the muzzle, then used an online ballistics program to correct the measured velocity back to actual muzzle velocity. There is a link below to that program...

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.0.cgi

Barnes Spitfire TMZ 250 grain (.221 BC)

70 grains of BH-209 equal to 100 grains volume measure
1851 fps muzzle velocity

77 grains equal to 110 grains volume measure
1985 fps muzzle velocity

84 grains equal to 120 grains volume measure
2053 fps muzzle velocity

Barnes Spitfire TMZ 290 grain (.241 BC)

70 grains of BH-209 equal to 100 grains volume measure
1802 fps muzzle velocity

77 grains equal to 110 grains volume measure
1924 fps muzzle velocity

84 grains equal to 120 grains volume measure
2011 fps muzzle velocity

I had not tested the 290 grain bullets before, reading on the internet told me they are really best suited to 1/24 twist barrels, but some 1/28 barrels will work with them, and apparently mine is one of them because they shoot just as good as the 250's.



I also fired one round with a hornady 180 grain bullet/sabot....I had bought those with the idea of using the Omega to pop a woodchucl or two for some off season practice, and it did not seem that I needed 250 to 300 grain bullets for woodchucks. They were the lightest bullet/sabot I could find for a 50 caliber mz....never got around to doing anything with them yet...

Hornady 180 grain 44 caliber XTP (.138 BC)

84 grains of BH209 equal to 120 grains by volume
2166 fps


Overall I am quite pleased with the BH209 powder.....I did not get any "magic" 3/4" groups as some have reported.....BUT I was able to get roughly the same groups with 120 grains equiv as with 100 grains equiv.......which is better than what I have seen with 777 powder....accuracy goes to hell with 777 in my gun past 100 grains of powder.

3 and 5 shot groups were running 1.5" or so at 75 yards, that is using a 3x9 Nikon Omega scope set on 9x.

Personally I think some of the accuracy results may not be nearly as good as the gun will actually shoot......it probably takes a better man than I at the bench to wring tiny groups out of a 7lb rifle that is generating 2600 ft lbs of energy .

I fired a total of 30 shots with no cleaning at all, every bullet/sabot seated about like the first and second one did. The breech plug was about as easy to remove as after 1-2 shots of 777 powder....there was a small amount of residue built up in the powder chamber of the breech plug, easily removed with shooters choice.

The bore cleaned up with 4-5 wet patches with shooters choice, followed by a couple dry patches.



I did notice one thing worthy of mention......the FIRST shot I fired from a clean bore with 100 grains by volume BH209 behind a 250 grain bullet/sabot cronoed 75 fps faster than the next three shots...all shots measured at 20 feet uncorrected......
1905
1829
1827
1826

Also after cleaning, and reloading with the 120 grains by volume charge with the 290 grain bullet the first shot the gun shot about 2" high at 75 yards............so it looks like a fouling shot will be needed after cleaning the gun..................not unusual at all....just different than 777 which seems to drop the first shot from a clean bore into the group.

I'm going to do some work next week with the fouled gun....shooting one shot per day at the same target.....that is closer to actual deer hunting than 1 shot every 3-5 minutes testing loads and bullets.

I tried my Lyman 55 measure first with the BH209, and I set the big slide on "100" and it only dropped about 50 grains by weight....I have never actually tried setting the measure with the graduations on it, I assumed they were "grains bulk of BP"...maybe not. So then I switched over to the RCBS uniflow which had the small drum in it, and as I suspected the small drum is too small. So I put the big drum in and everything worked great from there. I weighed every charge I threw and all were within .2 of a grain total variation.


Bill

[Willbird]

The load I settled on was the 120 grain equiv with the barnes 290 tmz

Velocity/energy/trajectory look like this


Distance Velocity/energy Point of impact

Muzzle 2011fps/2605 ft lbs of energy
75 yards 1777fps/2034 ft lbs of energy 0.0 poi
150 yards 1564fps/1575 ft lbs of energy -4.7" poi
200 yards 1435fps/1326 ft lbs of energy -12.2" poi


I use 75 yards as a sight in distance because it a far easier distance to shoot on my backyard range than say 100 yards.

[StarMetal]

Well Will, Randy Wakeman said he was a confirmed 777 shooter until BH209 came along. Seems like you're finding out most the stuff out there about it is pretty much dead on. There's no doubt it's way better then the Hodgdon stuff. So it boils down to whether you're a traditionalist or not in using it over BP. Seems they have finally come out with something that truly is a smokeless not have to clean BP sub. Too bad the stuff cost an arm and a leg though.

Joe

[Willbird]

Yes I agree no surprises, but I like to know exactly how fast the bullets really come out of the end . The stuff does not cost as much as pellets....and people bend over to buy THOSE all the time .

I like BP for fin shooting, my first handgun was a Ruger Old army....but the Omega is for making meat ...maybe someday I will have gotten enough deer that I will have a hankering to use a #11 cap and a patched round ball to harvest them, in that case I will use BP.

Bill

[StarMetal]

Yes I agree no surprises, but I like to know exactly how fast the bullets really come out of the end . The stuff does not cost as much as pellets....and people bend over to buy THOSE all the time .

I like BP for fin shooting, my first handgun was a Ruger Old army....but the Omega is for making meat ...maybe someday I will have gotten enough deer that I will have a hankering to use a #11 cap and a patched round ball to harvest them, in that case I will use BP.

Bill

Maybe other powder manufacturers will follow suit. You don't hear much about IMR's White Powder. Have you?

Joe

[Underclocked]

Did you thoroughly clean your breech plug afterwards? Use a drill bit?

[StarMetal]

Did you thoroughly clean your breech plug afterwards? Use a drill bit?

Why? It's non corrosive and not hygroscopic.

Joe

[BCall]

I have been using BH209 for the last year in my CVA Optima Elite. I have been very pleased with the results. I am now using the Hornady 350 gr FPB over 95 gr volume charge of BH209. This is an average size group I have been shooting at 100 meters. Right at 1-1/4". FWIW, the powder may be non-corrosive and non-hygroscopic, but it and the combination of standard shotgun primers in my experience will foul a breech plug severly. I have had to use a drill bit on one occassion to clean the hard fouling out of the channel in the plug. Never had ignition problems, but I could very well see it happening if the breech plug was not cleaned well.

[Underclocked]

Yep, if you use it be prepared to thoroughly clean the flame channel below the primer cup. In most US made rifles, the channel will accept a 1/8" bit and in Spanish made use a 3/32" or 3mm if you have one. Soak with a good solvent such as Hoppes then use the bit to clean it out, either hand turning or perhaps using a small portable screw driver to do the work.

Mandatory.

ps: clean your rifle anyway.

[Underclocked]

StarMetal, you might want to read this thread http://dougsmessageboards.proboards....ad=2770&page=1

Please read the whole of the thread and then form your own opinion as to whether you should be concerned about the possiblity of corrosion after using BH209.

[StarMetal]

StarMetal, you might want to read this thread http://dougsmessageboards.proboards....ad=2770&page=1

Please read the whole of the thread and then form your own opinion as to whether you should be concerned about the possiblity of corrosion after using BH209.

Thanks...I'll check that out and read all of it and report my opinion then.

Joe

[StarMetal]

underclocked,

I read that whole forum posting on the BH209. He's my conclusion. I'm not a big fan of Randy Wakeman, I don't mean I dislike him, just saying I'm neutral, I do like lots of his work...but like he said any propellant can be corrosive. I've seen rifles shot only with modern smokeless powders that were not cleaned and set for quite some time with a a white powder looking surface covering in their bores. So something is going on. Now Randy best described 777, it's not corrosive in the fact that burning it creates anything that will start to eat away at your barrel, but rather the ash it leaves is hygroscopic and attracts moisture like a bandit. Apparently BH209 is not as bad as 777 but may leave an ash that can attract moisture. As for their statement not to clean with water, I don't have an explanation for. I don't use water to clean anything except BP, it's subs, and after corrosive ammo in centerfire rifles. I would never use water to clean my modern rifle that I fired modern new ammo from. Now as to why the gentlemans barrel rusted badly after BH209 use I don't know and won't say until he has had a polygraph test and his home is thoroughly tested for moisture content including his gun safe. In other words I feel he's not telling the whole truth.

I still that if BH209 was cheaper that it would be a great sub.

Joe

[jh45gun]

I am to the conclusion that ANY black powder sub is some what either corrosive or hygroscopic take your pick either can affect your gun with out good cleaning so if you got to clean I just use the Holy Black, cheaper and accurate.

[Willbird]

Actually the last BP I bought was just as expensive as 777 , and dfeinately more expensive than buying 777 AFTER deer season when walmart puts it on close out at $15 per container.

The flash hole on my appears to be a two dia affair, the bigger hole is about a #45 drill...and the smaller dia up by the powder channel has never appeared blocked so I never ran anything through it. I only just ran a drill up in the larger hole yesterday....it did not NEED it per se....I got nothing much out of there.

The fouling in the bowl shaped cavity in my Omega breech plug after 30 rounds I would describe as slightly pebbly in appearance, and maybe .01" to .015" thick...even in appearance...it was surely not a problem. I would expect to see far more "stuff" after one shot of 777.

I have never fired a single round of BP in my Omega rifle since it was new, I did not buy it for that really. I do keep BP around just because I like to have 2-3 lbs around.....honestly I would rather have 25 or 50 pounds around...but $$ does not permit that at present.

I know Chad Cleland, since he was a little kid actually, he has won the bp nationals almost every year at perry, and he shoots for TC, I think he shoots a few rounds of BP every day....anyway he told me they used to buy GOEX in a BULK box...it just had 25 lbs of powder in the box

Bill

[mooman76]

I just clean mine after shooting. Not that big a deal. It is nice though to be able to leave it if you know you are going to shoot it again sometime soon.

[Underclocked]

How big is a #45 drill in inches (off the top of your head)? .082" - I looked it up. That channel will accept a 1/8" bit - you likely haven't got the carbon out yet. Trust me on this one guys, if you do not clean that channel thoroughly on a regular basis - you WILL start encountering misfires and hangfires as the channel will almost completely fill with hard carbon deposit.

Willbird, if you can compare your cleaned plug to a new one, please do so.

[StarMetal]

How big is a #45 drill in inches (off the top of your head)? .082" - I looked it up. That channel will accept a 1/8" bit - you likely haven't got the carbon out yet. Trust me on this one guys, if you do not clean that channel thoroughly on a regular basis - you WILL start encountering misfires and hangfires as the channel will almost completely fill with hard carbon deposit.

Willbird, if you can compare your cleaned plug to a new one, please do so.

Clock,

My Black Diamond TC inline with the 209 nipple in has a really really small hole. It's probably not a lot bigger then my mig welder wire of .030.

Joe

[Willbird]

How big is a #45 drill in inches (off the top of your head)? .082" - I looked it up. That channel will accept a 1/8" bit - you likely haven't got the carbon out yet. Trust me on this one guys, if you do not clean that channel thoroughly on a regular basis - you WILL start encountering misfires and hangfires as the channel will almost completely fill with hard carbon deposit.

Willbird, if you can compare your cleaned plug to a new one, please do so.

being a machinist I have a "feel" for things, and the next size larger drill bit would have been removing metal . There is a chamber around the bottom of the 209 pocket that has a 118 degree drill bit angle, even that chamfer is not 1/8" dia.....and I shaved that down to bare metal.

CVA "stuff" may be different, but a 1/8" flash hole in a 209 muzzle loader would really surprise me. I do not have a new plug for my Omega.

Bill

[StarMetal]

being a machinist I have a "feel" for things, and the next size larger drill bit would have been removing metal . There is a chamber around the bottom of the 209 pocket that has a 118 degree drill bit angle, even that chamfer is not 1/8" dia.....and I shaved that down to bare metal.

CVA "stuff" may be different, but a 1/8" flash hole in a 209 muzzle loader would really surprise me. I do not have a new plug for my Omega.

Bill

I'd be afraid to shoot an up to snuff load with a muzzler loader that's nipple has a 1/8th inch hole for the 209 primer.

Joe

[Willbird]

I'd be afraid to shoot an up to snuff load with a muzzler loader that's nipple has a 1/8th inch hole for the 209 primer.

Joe

Well my BP cannon has a 1/8 touch hole for cannon fuse, and a LOT of gas comes out of that hole .

Bill