Quick Question on PPCBoos in 8mm Mauser

[DrNick]

Hi Gang,

My Yugo M48 has a VERY tight/short throat. I hear that having the bullet base extend below the neck of the case is a big no-no....I am using the LEE 175 grainer. I tensioned a case neck and and chambered a round....the bullet engages the rifling right at 2.800" Laying another bullet beside the case, the bullet base is quite a bit below the bottom of the case neck. Any ideas? Am I up a creek here?

Nick

[docone31]

I routinely load mine below the neck.
With paper, things are different.
Load them like they are jacketeds.

[Nrut]

That's good to hear docone31..
I load regular gg boolits below the neck/shoulder but for some unexplained reason of my own, I thought that would be a bad practice with PP..
Thanks!.. that will save me the extra step of nose tapering with some boolits..

[bcp477]

I concur. Seating the bullet base below the neck is not necessarily a problem with PP bullets (or jacketed, for that matter). However, it is not optimum. You definitely don't want to have to seat any bullet much more than 1 diameter below the case neck, if you can avoid it.

This is perplexing. The M48, like most other '98 Mauser versions, tends to have a long throat....not a short one. However, if you are pushing the bullet into the lands with a COL of only a bit longer than 2.80" (alowing for the round, sub- bore dia. of the bullet nose) ...... you have an incredibly short throat. The standard Yugo surplus ammo (COL) is WAY longer than that. The max. COL for any of the '98 Mausers is supposed to be 3.25" ! In fact, if your throat is that short, there is no way you could even CHAMBER any of the commercial 8 x 57 ammo out there, let alone the Yugo surplus. Has your rifle been rebarreled ? That is, is your barrel an "aftermarket" one, as opposed to an original Yugo military barrel ? Regardless, I think that you have a short-chambered barrel, thus, the chamber isn't even at it's full, finished length. 2.80" is ridiculously tight - meaning that for every bullet you try, except for perhaps 150 grainers and lighter, you'll have to seat below the case neck. And, forget about using any bullets heavier than 175 grains - they'll just be too long.

[pdawg_shooter]

I load a lot of PPs in a 300RUM. If I didnt seat below the neck I would have to use only 125gr bullets or so. I have achieved 3000+ fps and MOA accuracy with this rifle and a 202 gr PP bullet.

[DrNick]

The standard Yugo surplus ammo (COL) is WAY longer than that. The max. COL for any of the '98 Mausers is supposed to be 3.25" ! In fact, if your throat is that short, there is no way you could even CHAMBER any of the commercial 8 x 57 ammo out there, let alone the Yugo surplus. Has your rifle been rebarreled?

BCP477:

The barrel is original and authentic. The rifle chambers and discharges commercial and surplus ammunition just fine. I think that the issue with the LEE casting is that its short blunt nose makes the bullet like a soup can in profile, thereby requiring it to be seated much deeper in the case. A pointed bullet can be much longer than my casting because of the long section of nose that does not even touch the bore.

[DrNick]

Thanks for the feedback guys. One more question: what do I look for in terms of the dreaded 'ring of paper' in the chamber? Should I start firing PPCBoos using The Load or just starting J-word loads?

Thanks.

[docone31]

With smokeless, you might not get one.

[bcp477]

BCP477:

The barrel is original and authentic. The rifle chambers and discharges commercial and surplus ammunition just fine. I think that the issue with the LEE casting is that its short blunt nose makes the bullet like a soup can in profile, thereby requiring it to be seated much deeper in the case. A pointed bullet can be much longer than my casting because of the long section of nose that does not even touch the bore.

Well, you are certainly right, as regards many spitzer bullets, depending on the the exact profile of the ogive. I made some measurments (on my M48), because of my being intrigued by your situation. The load I am using currently, with a flat-nose 175 grain PP bullet, has a COL of 2.810"....... and is a good bit short of touching the leade. The bullet has a meplat of about 0.214"and a totaL length of 0.904". The ogive portion of the bullet measures just about 0.280", and the ogive is a smooth curve, but with an almost straight portion at the forward part, much like the Hornady "secant" ogive. I do not need to seat these bullets below the case neck....in fact, I seat them to a depth of about 0.325" (just over 1 diameter).....which as it happens, is just about to the base of the neck, but not below it. Still, I am not quite 0.037" from contacting the leade. So, three things are apparent. One, my previous post was a bit of an overreaction - in truth, I had never done most of these measurements before (just played with seating depth only out to a minimum of 1 diameter). Oops !!! Egg on MY face !!! Two, your rifle does, it would seem, have a BIT of a short chamber, but not as bad as I thought - (or perhaps mine has a bit of a LONG chamber !). Three, it seems possible that your bullets are a bit long for the weight, as compared to the ones I am using..... notwithstanding the differences in nose and ogive profile. Of course, this could be due to different bullet alloys, or even different casting diameters, before patching (I size mine to 0.314" dia., then patch to 0.3235"....then size back to right at 0.323"). No matter.

Anyway, your situation should NOT be a problem. Forget what I said about the seating of the bullet base below the neck not being optimum. That is true in general, at least in severe circumstances, but in this case, I'm sure it won't be enough to matter.



Interesting stuff. I think that I will push my seating depth out to about 0.290"..... and chamber with the bullet virtually touching the leade. I am getting very good accuracy as it is, but perhaps a bit of tweaking might improve things.

[Nrut]

I load a lot of PPs in a 300RUM. If I didnt seat below the neck I would have to use only 125gr bullets or so. I have achieved 3000+ fps and MOA accuracy with this rifle and a 202 gr PP bullet.

I was wondering how you did that.. I was thinking that you must have had a custom throat..
I should have just asked.