Cast bullets in .223

[45 2.1]

Ahhh......... lets see........... limits and thresholds.........those things hold things, and people, back. What you suppose and what actually is done are two different things in most cases. One's knowledge of what to do trumps whatever is supposed to happen. Advice for everyone......... learn what to do instead of reading, and abideing, someone elses excuse for failure.

[Jack Stanley]

Well fellas , like I said , I'm still learnin' . So what I think I'll do is see if'n I can pull out of the parking space without bangin' a fender and then see if I can get onto the road without running over a fireplug . There is little sense for me to put the effort into making tiny bullets only to throw them into buckshot looking groups . Maybe later I can get to running an AR with them .

Jack

[cardonasharp]

I just finished shooting cast bullets in my AR15. I was very disappointed with the results. I used a 55gr GC from a fellow caster who send them to try them out. The groups where tight. It did not cycle the bolt. Loads are or were as follows/


7.8
8.3
8.8
9.3
9.8 I used unique gun powder.

[JKH]

I tried a load of 9 grains Unique that another member stated cycled his AR15, I didnt shoot for groups but stricly for function, the bolt opened but not enough to eject the spent case. My AR has a 24" bull barrel so that may be why it wouldnt cycle.

Next step is a load with AA2230C. I have also been thinking about 2400, anyone get an AR with rifle length gas system to function with this powder? What about IMR4227?

How far could I go with Unique or is 9 grains the safe limit in .223/5.56?

Jeff

[StarMetal]

I tried a load of 9 grains Unique that another member stated cycled his AR15, I didnt shoot for groups but stricly for function, the bolt opened but not enough to eject the spent case. My AR has a 24" bull barrel so that may be why it wouldnt cycle.

Next step is a load with AA2230C. I have also been thinking about 2400, anyone get an AR with rifle length gas system to function with this powder? What about IMR4227?

How far could I go with Unique or is 9 grains the safe limit in .223/5.56?

Jeff

I have gotten my AR15 in 6.5 Grendel caliber to function with low charges of 4227. This was early stage testing to see if the rifle would shoot cast to start with. It does. I'll have to go from memory as it was just a test to see what the cast would do and my intentions were to use much slower rifle powders then the 4227. Be advised the 6.5 Grendel has more case capacity then the 5.56. I starte around 11 grains and went up to the point where I knew I should switch to a slower rifle powder.

[GabbyM]

did you have hope to cycle an AR with Unique? Since I've never hearsd of any sucsess with cycling with powders faster than 4227. 4895 is probably what you want to try.

Lyman list for bullet #225646 9.0 grains of Unique as max at 2209 fps and 41,400 C.U.P. did those loads over 9.0 grains still group tight? That's quite a kick for those little lead bullets. Bullet #225415 shows more powder. up to 9.5 grains.

Is it a big deal to you to have the bolt cycle? I know sicne I have a bolt gun in 223 it makes little sense to take out the AR if it wont feed auto cycle.

if you have any stick type rifle powder on the shelf it should work. I've used H4198 and RX7. it takes 14.5 and 15.6 gains respectively so your powder cost is about double that of Unique laods. Many AR's probably still would not cycle with those powders and 4895 adds another five grains to the laod at 19.5 to 20.0 gains. What I'm trying to get at is you can make the bolt cycle but you have to pay for it with double the powder charge of slower powder. My guess would be noise also increases.

[Stoats]

I'm currently finding that the pointless nose grooves on the Lyman 225646 cause most of the rejects when I'm casting, even with virgin Linotype. It seems they like to catch air bubbles, which are minimised by tipping the mould so that the air vents point diagonally.

Anyone else have this problem?

[45 2.1]

I'm currently finding that the pointless nose grooves on the Lyman 225646 cause most of the rejects when I'm casting, even with virgin Linotype. It seems they like to catch air bubbles, which are minimised by tipping the mould so that the air vents point diagonally.

Anyone else have this problem?

Your having a problem with trapped air. Use a small ladle such as the Lee or pour a small thin stream from a bottom pour. Try to get it in the sprue hole without closing it up with lead while pouring.

[O9Tacoma4x4]

I've been having good luck with these little honeys lately.

<little kid voice> Doe's are bootyfull.
/kidvoice

I've only seen cast rifle bullets once. .30 M1 Carbine. They were real nice @ 50-75 yards but they opened up quite a bit (9-13 inches) @ 100. Granted they were open sights from a rest but I'd seen the same Guy shoot a Hi-Point carbine and hold under 6 inches doing the same set up

[JKH]

Your having a problem with trapped air. Use a small ladle such as the Lee or pour a small thin stream from a bottom pour. Try to get it in the sprue hole without closing it up with lead while pouring.

I use a bottom pour LEE pot but this is exactly how I pour my LEE BATOR's, using this method I get perfect fill out with straight lino, even wheel weight alloy gives me very few rejects as long as I tip the mold and run the stream of lead on the edge of the sprue hole.

I hope the AA2230C will work, I read another post about cast lead boolits in an AR15 and the poster was using this podwer with success, I sure hope so because I have 8 pounds and it will make 1/2 minute loads with match bullets with most any load I throw in.

Jeff

[GabbyM]

It was stated above that lube groves in Lyman #225646 were usless.

I'm not sure those lube groves in the nose of Lyman #225646 are useless. Can't claim one way or the other. Not tried to shoot that bullet to maximum velocity with or without lubing the groves. Most I've shot have had empty noses. My rifles shoot max loads from the Lyman book but those stop at 2200 fps. Plus I've never tried a 200 round string of fire without cleaning. Plan to try dipping the #225646 noses in LLA after loaded into the rounds and ramping up the velocity to see if I can get 2500 fps from my 26” barrel bolt gun. 26” is a lot of tube to lube. With LLA in the nose and Felix in the groves it should be plenty of grease. I'll have to try it with and without the extra lube at a higher than normal cast velocity. Whatever “normal” is. I've only tried 14.5 grains of H4198 in my 223. Boring isn't it. Have H4895, RX15, RX17 for the HV loads and some Alliant 20/28 just for fun to duplicate Unique loads with what is advertised as a clean burning powder. Just need to spend more time shooting and less time on the internet.

As for getting 22 bullets cast up. They are indeed a challenge. I ended up using an alloy of one eight pound ingot of 2/6 alloy with one pound of Linotype added. Never did the alloy math on that but it's some scrap Lino I bought from a fellow here on the forum and it seams to work magic. It's some sweet stuff. It's expensive alloy but with a 55 grain bullet it ain't heavy. Can get good bullets with bottom poor. They look fine until set next to boolits cast with my Lyman ladle and pressure pored in the Lyman #225646. They are the most beautiful bullets I've ever made. When I bottom poor if the mould gets a bit hot bullets shrink. With the ladle they all come out perfect once everything gets to temp and going. With little 22's it's such a chore to get them running at peak output I get all set to go and run for two hours with no break. Other bullets I ladle poor are the RCBS 30-180-FN and Lyman 375449 two cavity. Seams when you get enough heat in to fill out they quickly move on to shrinkage. With a ladle poor I just get a pile of perfect bullets. They can't shrink with weight of a ladle full of lead on top of the sprue plate. Which is unfortunate since ladle poring is a drag compared to bottom poor. Not saying others can't get perfect 22 bullets with bottom poor. Just seams to evade my skill level.

[JKH]

Hey Gabby,

I havent tried ladle pouring my BATOR, but with the technique I have developed for that mold (it is finicky but stable once learned) I use with the bottom pour pot my boolits are extremely consistent, I plucked out and mic'ed over 100 boolits from one pour session and they were all less than a half thousandth within .226 (.226 to .2265), this is with straight up virgin lino-type that is good as gold for making these little boolits :^ ) I have about 70 pounds of it so that should make a few .22's over the years ;^ )

Casting these .22's is quite an adventure, it seem's like you arent making any headway and after an hour the little pile of boolits looks pretty pathetic... til you count them and find you have at least 300 to maybe 400 in the pile! When I first got my LEE BATOR mold I made a trade deal for it and offered the seller 2000 of theses little pill's nekid in trade for the brand new mold, THAT is an impressive amount of boolits! The whole kit and kaboodle fit into a $5 flat rate box which made me very happy :^ )

I hope to run some more loads through my AR this weekend with AA2230C, maybe it will be good and maybe it will be bad, we shall see.

Jeff

[Stoats]

I get 2400 ft./s with the 225646 without using the nose grooves

[BABore]

Those nose grooves are not meant for lube. The bore ride nose design of similar Lyman designs are a little bigger than common bore sizes. The grooves are there so the metal has someplace to upset to so it chambers and extracts easier. Similar to a Loverin design. The grooves also give a place for the fouling to go as well. While you can lube them, they are really meant to be.

[riverwalker76]

I've been having good luck with these little honeys lately.

What mold do you use? Those look great!!!

[Daryl]

I've been having good luck with these little honeys lately.

Hi Jim

I noticed how you have these seated. I was trying to seat mine deeper - more toward the front groove. This put the gas check, as best as I could tell, about 1/2 still in the neck of the case. How did you arrive at your seating depth?

thanks

Daryl

[riverwalker76]

I just finished shooting cast bullets in my AR15. I was very disappointed with the results. I used a 55gr GC from a fellow caster who send them to try them out. The groups where tight. It did not cycle the bolt. Loads are or were as follows/


7.8
8.3
8.8
9.3
9.8 I used unique gun powder.

I might actually be able to lend you some help in that department.

I'm an AR-15 guy, and that is my weapon of specialty.

Answer me this .... what type of stock / spring setup do you have, or the better question is .... what brand is your AR?

[cardonasharp]

DPMS Panther

[riverwalker76]

DPMS Panther

Before I go any further ....

was the Bolt Carrier Group not cycling at ALL, or was it not ejecting and not reaching full battery?

[cardonasharp]

it would fire but it would not cycle the bolt back to eject or chamber a round. I had to pull the handle to eject and chamber a round.