Dispensing Black Powder

[Lawnjockey]

I've started reloading black powder and I have some questions about powder dispensers. As I understand it the smokeless dispensers are a no no with black due to possible static issues. To date I have been using a scale with Lee dippers and a tickler, real slow. I have an RCBS manual smokeless dispenser and also the electronic combo scale and dispenser for smokeless but as I understand it I can not use black in either, true?

If I have to buy another dispenser for black what are my options. Consistent drops are number one in importance with price being second.

Thanks

Jocko

[shooter93]

Lyman makes a BP measure, the hopper and parts are mostly brass to prevent static eletricity.

[rob45]

A powder measure rated for safe use with black powder will be constructed with nonferrous metals. The metering unit is usually brass. For economical manufacture, the hopper is usually aluminum.

All of the "big 3" (Lyman, Hornady, RCBS) make one and are in the same general price range; expect to pay somewhere around $125. Lee doesn't make one, but if they did I would almost guarantee it would be 100% aluminum and plastic (no expensive brass) and be half the cost of the others.

Many situations call for use of a drop tube in conjunction with your BP measure. A drop tube allows the powder to "settle" into the case, thereby permitting a larger charge. The old saying is "stuffing 2 pounds of **** into a 1 pound bag". Most drop tubes are 24" long, and generally cost $25-40. Your particular situation may not necessitate use of a drop tube, but it sure makes life easier for me.

I have used a Lyman #55 Classic Black Powder Measure since 2003. The love-hate relationship I've had with Lyman as of late notwithstanding, I have to say I am very pleased with this measure. If I'm on top of my game, consistency is there. Think charges held to within .2 grains, with .4 grains maximum deviation. As with any powder measure, best consistency is obtained when the powder level is kept above the baffle. My measure is marked to read a max of 120 grains, but the metering unit can be slid out and calibrated to measure 200 grains (FFG). Obviously plenty of capacity. The only thing I do not like about it is the factory drop tube; I feel that it has too large of an orifice diameter. I had a machinist make a smaller orifice and adapt it to the factory tube.

My cousin owns the Hornady model. He has had it for about 7 years, and his biggest complaint was lack of a factory drop tube. I mailed him a Lyman tube and it didn't fit. However, his supplier recently told him that Hornady has started production of a factory drop tube; supposedly it even comes with interchangeable orifices. His measure reads to 100 grains. I asked him if it will go out further (like my Lyman) and he has not yet checked to see. Overall, he is happy with the measure. Since he lives 7 hours south of me, I have not used his Hornady, but he has visited up here and used my Lyman. He likes the Lyman better because he says it is more consistent.

RCBS also makes a BP measure; I have no experience with it and do not know anyone who has one. As with most things made by RCBS, it is probably of good quality.

Understand that this is only two opinions from two people. In my direct area, very few people shoot black powder; the ones who do use it more for muzzleloading rather than BPCR. Preferring to support my local shop, I very seldom purchase from the internet suppliers, but most of them have some sort of "feedback" program on the various products, so that may be a way to get more information. Also, more information may be available by checking the various forums here (single shot guns, black powder cartridge, etc.)

Hope I've helped somewhat.
Good Luck.

[G50-70]

Buffalo Arms sells a brass replacement hopper for the Lyman 55. I bought one several years ago and have been very satisfied with it.

[jonk]

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_...ks/sparks.html

An eye opener.

I think it isn't the static that ignites it but the heat from friction in some dispensers.

Plastic is no problem or you wouldn't be able to buy black powder in plastic bottles or use your lee dippers.

I don't reload much black in cases but if I did, I'd waffle on the issue. Conventional wisdom vs the experiment above.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I have owned one of those Lyman powder measures with the short plastic tube for at least 30 years. The instructions include useing black powder.

I have, and still do.

I have all the parts lubed with a very light coating of Lee resizing lube which dries to a waxy film. This is for corrosion as you must keep the measure empty and out of the humidity when not being used. It 's cast iron, criminitly !...and will rust and bind from the powder dust absorbing moisture.

For the worry-warts, firmly hook a wire to a screw outside , run the wire up the outside of the plastic tube and down to the top part of the metal inside. It won't do nothing different except save you the retrofit kit price. BvT

[jhrosier]

... you must keep the measure empty and out of the humidity when not being used. It 's cast iron, criminitly !...and will rust and bind from the powder dust absorbing moisture. ...

I got a free Lyman #55 from a fellow who was using it for BP.
He didn't keep it dry and clean and the BP dust plus moisture literally ate the casting away and then the corrosion scored the drum beyond repair.
Lyman was not sympathetic and offered him a new measure for list price.
I got it in case the larger hopper and long drop tube might come in handy some day.

Jack

[Lawnjockey]

Thanks for the ideas.

Jocko

[tonyb]

Been using my uniflow for black powder since 1984.

[Catshooter]

Both of my Uniflows say on the top Not For Blackpowder.


Cat

[Lead Fred]

I use a plastic spoon into the plastic volume measure, then into the drop tube

[montana_charlie]

As I understand it the smokeless dispensers are a no no with black due to possible static issues.

With some guys, you can buy 'em shoes and send 'em to school and still they have to prove the laws of nature wrong.
One of those 'rebels' suspected that static electricity isn't as dangerous around black powder as the experts say it is...so he went to trying to explode some with that kind of energy.

He used static charges that would burn holes in your mother's favorite linen tablecloth, but he never got a single granule of black powder to ignite.

I use the same (all steel & iron) Redding powder measure that I bought decades ago for smokeless, and I don't feel at all nervous about it.
CM

[Shiloh]

Been using my uniflow for black powder since 1984.

25 years is a long record of no incidents.

Using your Uniflow however, goes against all the safety precautions and RCBS recommendations.

Shiloh

[tonyb]

Using your Uniflow however, goes against all the safety precautions and RCBS recommendations.

Shiloh

Yep, known that fer 25 years.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

that Crow lady recommended only one sheet too. But I think she has other things on her mind. BvT

[jerrold]

electricity is such an issue, why is there no report of accident. Why will it not light smokeless. I think the fear is an old wives tail. Use a RCBS Uniflow, always have always will.

[KCSO]

Static will not light off granulated powder, but it WILL light off dust, any dust. Doc Carlson and I have both used a static generator to attempt to light off granulated powder. Using a Nova xr5000 50,000 volt stun gun we have repeatedly sent sparks through various black powders with NO results. But if you take the same unit, put a little flour in a plastic pail, shake it up and zap it, you can blow the lid across the room. That's why milling the powder is so dangerous, the dust created.

As to powder measures, the Lyman #5 I have came with instructions for Black and the new smokless powders and my Father in Law's 55 also was advertised for black and smokless. They DO have to be kept clean and you can't store powder in them and that may be why they are no longer recommended. If you keep them clean there seems to be no problem.

[cajun shooter]

I shoot nothing but BP and when I first started I did what was told to me and purchased the BP measures. I have a Lyman 55 and a RCBS. In recent test by others they have tried to ignite BP with electrical sparks to no avail. You will find all of your BP for sale in plastic type containers.

[rob45]

A powder measure rated for safe use with black powder will be constructed with nonferrous metals. The metering unit is usually brass. For economical manufacture, the hopper is usually aluminum.
Lee doesn't make one, but if they did I would almost guarantee it would be 100% aluminum and plastic (no expensive brass) and be half the cost of the others.

This thread certainly opened up a can of worms.

Please note that I have not stated an opinion regarding the possibility of static ignition. I merely stated the construction as it is from the manufacturers.

We are not the manufacturers of the powder measures; as such, we can only speculate their reasoning for making the separate products.

Could it be due to the corrosive effects of BP?
Please take note of my comment: "...constructed with nonferrous metals". Were I to manufacture a powder measure, I would most definitely take into account the possibility that the average Joe will not consider preventative maintenance of "something as simple as a powder measure". Yet if the equipment goes bad through fault of our own (refer to post #7 by jhrosier), the product and the manufacturer are blamed. Result: Joe tells all of his buddies bad things, even if Joe was the party at fault.
Personally, I do not want to "specially maintain" a powder measure, and that is the reason I purchased the one I have. I have enough trouble maintaining everything else and keeping track of it all.

Could it be due to the static issue?
Please take note of my comment: "...rated for safe use..." That does not come from me, nor does it reflect my opinion, but rather what is stated in advertising. If one has any concern about why a manufacturer states the word "safe" and their allusion to that word, then perhaps the individual should go straight to the source for clarification- the manufacturer.
I do know that we unfortunately live in a litigious society, and the direction and decisions of a corporation are not determined by the people who actually know what's going on (i.e., engineers, chemists, etc.), but rather the accountants and attorneys. Even if we prove something wrong, you can bet the farm that a corporate attorney will say that "it doesn't matter; the possibility still exists".

Here are some points of interest for the more inquisitive among us who wish to piece it all together:

1. I am looking- at this very moment- at a can of GOEX FFFg. It is red with black labeling, and is approximately 15 years old. It is metal, and has a few spots of corrosion on the shiny top. A magnet sticks to this can, indicating ferrous material. On the side of the can is the following statement: "DANGER! READ THIS WARNING! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE AND EXPLOSIVE! - KEEP AWAY FROM HEAT, SPARKS, AND OPEN FLAME! - KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN! - AVOID IMPACT AND FRICTION! - STORE IN A COOL, DRY PLACE! - SEE FURTHER PRECAUTIONS ON BACK OF CAN."

2. Now I am looking at a Uniflow. It does indeed state on the top Not For Black Powder. But it doesn't say why.

3.Now I am looking at a field powder dispenser. It is a cheap CVA unit purchased back in '92. It is black plastic.

4. Now I am looking at a field measure. It was made by T/C and is clear plastic.

5. Now I am looking at the latest addition to my lever gun stable- a Marlin 1895 XLR. It is still in the box as received from the dealer. On the top of the box in the center is the Marlin insignia depicting the cowboy on a horse. Directly to the right of that is the following statement: MR. DEALER THE ENCLOSED OWNER'S MANUAL SHOULD BE READ BY THE CONSUMER TO ASSURE SAFE USE OF THIS FIREARM. BE SURE THE CONSUMER RECEIVES IT.

6. Now I am looking at the owner's manual for the XLR. Not counting the covers, it is 8 pages.
Page 1 has 4 warnings in red print.
Page 2 has 3 warnings.
Page 3 has no warnings.
Page 4 has 6 warnings.
Page 5 has 5 warnings.
Page 6 has 2 warnings.
Page 7 has 1 warning.
Page 8 has no warnings.
I would venture to say that about 50% of the entire manual is "warnings".

7. Now I am looking at the owner's manual for a recently purchased Ruger M77 Mark II. This manual has about twice the amount of liability-evading warnings as the Marlin.
Of particular interest with the Ruger is that I installed a Timney trigger on it. Later on I inquired about sending the gun back to Ruger to have them check out the rear integral scope mount I felt- and still feel- was out of spec. Can anyone tell me what the trigger has to do with the scope mount??? Obviously the factory thinks they are tied at the hip.


I suppose that the best thing to keep in mind is that we are dealing with manufacturers, and their motives may or may not concern us. It's up to us to separate the carrots from the meat and potatoes. For that matter, some of us like the carrots, too.

[semtav]

Just looked at the top of my Uniflow. no such warning. course its at least 35 yrs old, so maybe that was either before black powder or all these liablilty issues. Not sure which.

Whats the maximum capacity for the Uniflow? Suppose I'll have to use two loads on the 45-120?