Copper Haze

[extremepyro]

I smelted 8lbs of WW, threw in a few linotype and fluxed. The temp was around 750, an unusual amount of scum formed. Once I took that off there was a copper haze scum. I'm guessing it got a little hotter and turned a really kool looking purple. Trying to cast bullets was a nightmare. Any thoughts as to what this was.
The only thing ive learned so far, trying to cast twice, is that this is truely an art, takes alot of patients and you have to rely on the experienced people for help.
I didnt have this much trouble learning to make display fireworks.
Thanks for any help

[454PB]

We usually see that "copper" color when melting pure lead or babbitt metal. Blue colors also appear when melting pure lead. Any possibility that what you call linotype is babbitt?

[randyrat]

You'll be fine, just get your mold up to temperature. Pour a few and dump them back in the pot but don't use your sprue plate right away. This will heat your mold up quicker, then start using your sprue plate, dump them for a few more bullets.

Often, when you put in Linotype you have to flux again and you get junk/dross.

The first time i casted i had soooooo much lead scattered all over the mold face, it took me hours to clean the mold. Make sure you mold is closed when you cast. Check for light between the halves.

[armyrat1970]

Are you smelting in your casting pot. A no no. Get a dutch oven and smelt in that then pour ingots for use in your casting pot. The scum you are talking about could have been zinc from the wws, which is certain to mess up your casting alloy. The haze on the top could be tin. Even after fluxing you need to put a layer of something on top of the melt to stop the tin from oxidizing. Different people use different things for this. Kitty litter. Sawdust. Some stir with a paint stick or any stick which gives off carbon ash. I use oak leaves or CFF. The layer of ash stops the oxidation of the tin.

[badgeredd]

I smelted 8lbs of WW, threw in a few linotype and fluxed. The temp was around 750, an unusual amount of scum formed. Once I took that off there was a copper haze scum. I'm guessing it got a little hotter and turned a really kool looking purple. Trying to cast bullets was a nightmare. Any thoughts as to what this was.
The only thing ive learned so far, trying to cast twice, is that this is truely an art, takes alot of patients and you have to rely on the experienced people for help.
I didnt have this much trouble learning to make display fireworks.
Thanks for any help

Yep, it is a bit of an art, but I picked it up so I'm sure about anyone can. Maybe if you'd give us some specifics about your stuff we could help. Info on the type of casting (bottom pour/ladle pour), mold type and make, mold number , boolit design....and so forth. Most everyone wants to see you succeed here (adds another crazy to the flock, don't you know?)

Edd

[ghh3rd]

Pour a few and dump them back in the pot but don't use your sprue plate right away. This will heat your mold up quicker

Hey, I thought that was my secret!

[extremepyro]

Thanks sooo much--
More details for you,, Years ago a buddy of mines father passed that had small barrels of lead. Within these barrels are thin small round disks (im guessing tin). Also are these plates around 1/8 thick with type on them (since linotype has the word type in it, I just guesed it was linotype) Welp I ended up with these barrels so now im try to use it
I smelt around 8 pounds on a propane burner in a pot, added some of this an a little that. I gotta quit guessing what it is an how much to add. The last batch I did acording to the lee hardness tester was good to 26,000psi.
The mold im using is lee .401 175gr. 6 round---pouring what I smelted into a lee 10 pound bottom pour furnace. Im having problems with the bases, around the edges being rounded. (not filling out completly)
[IMG]www.fayettevillepyro.com/IMG_0059.jpg[/IMG]
I sprayed the the top of the mold with frankford's drop out.
I just got some spure plate lube from bull shop, have to try that.

[mpmarty]

Pyro, get your pot up to about 700 to 750 and spread a towel to catch boolits. Don't even look at what you cast but cast fifty or sixty as fast as you can. Dump all the cast boolits in a container and then and only then settle down and cast for keepers. If after this your boolits aren't frosty you're casting too slow. If they're wrinkled or not filling out you're either casting too slow or you have contaminated metal. The type letters you speak of is not Linotype it is either monotype, electrotype or stereotype. Mono is 72/9/19 lead tin antimony stereotype is 80/6/14 lead tin antimony. If you have any wheelweights they are 95.5/.5/4

You can create a spreadsheet to compute the percentages and arrive at whatever mix you want with a bit of pure lead to add to the mix. A good usable brew for my pistol boolits is 94/2/4 lead tin antimony.

Hang in there it isn't nearly as frustrating as making a bunch of bottle rockets and having an accident with a cigarette.

[randyrat]

Hey, I thought that was my secret!

I forgot, we're not to tell anyone about that. Top secret.

[jnovotny]

Well the cat is out of the back now Randy, thanks alot!

[454PB]

I took the liberty of posting your photo here, Pyro:




You sure picked a tough mould to start with!

Moulds of more than two cavity are a real challenge for a newbie. As was already stated, you either need more heat, faster casting, or you have a contaminated alloy. My guess is that you need to crank up the heat, preheat the mould, and cast as fast as you can.

Give it a try and report back.

[lwknight]

I tried that mold release and got the same results.
I folded a paper towel several layers thick and used a small rod inside the paper towel to clean all the excess carbon off. I also had to clean the top of the mold and spru plate, then clean all the little microgrooves in the mold blocks to get fully filled boolits.
After scrubbing the mold release out, it left a psuedo permanant coating and still drops out the boolits pretty good as long as I keep the antimony down to less than 6 percent.

Seems that everyone automatically jumps on the casting too cold thing. Thats not always the case.
Often there is not evough tin in the mix. I think you need about 2% and more than 3% is waste.

[armyrat1970]

I tried that mold release and got the same results.
I folded a paper towel several layers thick and used a small rod inside the paper towel to clean all the excess carbon off. I also had to clean the top of the mold and spru plate, then clean all the little microgrooves in the mold blocks to get fully filled boolits.
After scrubbing the mold release out, it left a psuedo permanant coating and still drops out the boolits pretty good as long as I keep the antimony down to less than 6 percent.

Seems that everyone automatically jumps on the casting too cold thing. Thats not always the case.
Often there is not evough tin in the mix. I think you need about 2% and more than 3% is waste.

If the rest of the cavity is filling well and only the base is not it seems the mold is a little cold. Don't actually know how he poured the boolits in the posted pics but you can tell the ones at the right had a better base that the ones from the left. Maybe as the mold heated the bases filled out better. It would be better to add a little more tin if he is not getting good fill throught the mold.
I started with a single cavity mold and have since gone to double cavities. For my needs I don't think I need anything more.

[extremepyro]

WElp people,,Thanks so much for your help--it paid off!!!
I cast 400 of the 40 sw Saturday. I was getting probably on an average 4 out of the 6 good. Sometimes all 6
Apparentl I wasnt going fast enough and the mold wasnt up to temp. Id wait awhile theen dump.
NOW I have to wonder how anal I should be on the bullets.
most have filled real nice,,nice 90 degree angles on the base but some have a very little bit of a rounded edge. I'll have to take a picture to show you.
But all in all thing went much much better
Thanks so much for your help!!

[454PB]

Glad it's getting better.

Don't be afraid to add some "external heat". I use a propane torch to preheat my moulds.

[blikseme300]

This is what I use to heat my 6-banger molds. Takes about 10-15 minutes. I use 9mm to .45 molds on this.



Bliksem

http://bliksemseplek.com/boolits.html

[armyrat1970]

I don't use a six banger. All I have are single or double. I used to heat my molds by setting them on top of my furnace while my alloy heated up. I now use my gas stove and just hold them over the flame until they are to hot to touch. If really frosted with my first cast I just slow down a bit. I don't mind frosted boolits at all though.