Varmint lead mix needed??

[geoff rodger]

Hi all
I,ave had A Lyman 358665 mold hollow pointed by Eric at hollowpoint mold service
for the use in my 357 marlin 1894. All I will be using this for is pest destruction. My load will only be around 1100 fps. I have heaps of pure lead and heaps of lino type to mix with it.
what would be a good ratio to use. something nice an fragile
thanks

[rob45]

Hi all
I,ave had A Lyman 358665 mold hollow pointed by Eric at hollowpoint mold service
for the use in my 357 marlin 1894. All I will be using this for is pest destruction. My load will only be around 1100 fps. I have heaps of pure lead and heaps of lino type to mix with it.
what would be a good ratio to use. something nice an fragile
thanks

Certainly a unique set of parameters- if I understand correctly, you are trying to develop a frangible bullet. Please understand that I have no experience with your stated cartridge, so much of this information may be speculation, but I believe it will point you in the right direction.

A few different obstacles will present difficulties; these are the areas I would consider, were I to undertake such a project:

1. You desire a "fragile" bullet. As a general rule, the higher the antimony content, the more brittle the alloy, providing the tin content is not too high in relation to antimony. So I would consider starting out with straight linotype; forget cutting it with your lead. As is, the linotype will make casting the hollowpoint profile very easy. As a point of interest, I have even cast bullets out of monotype and broken them upon chambering; you are not going to have this problem with lino. Your objective is to make the bullet as brittle as you can, yet not so brittle as to present problems before the bullet is even fired; it's not like you're shooting a single-shot where you have the ability to be delicate during loading. The lino will be a good starting point; bringing the antimony content up another 3% may work even better because it will dilute the effect of the tin, but adding antimony, while certainly possibly, is not particularly "quick and easy". So keep things simple and try the lino you already have.

2. You state that you want a low velocity. I'm not sure why you want that, but keep in mind that higher velocity will enhance destruction of the bullet upon impact. But if you still want lower velocities, remember to consider the pressures involved.
Current theory suggests balancing the pressure with the strength of the bullet, hopefully making the bullet "obturate" upon firing. While we do not know exactly what happens inside the gun bore, such theories are concerned with accuracy and prevention of leading, and there seems to be considerable testing and evidence to support these theories. Since you are trying to develop a frangible bullet, it will also be a hard bullet that is not conducive to the effects of obturation at your low velocities.
Were I to attempt driving a hard bullet at low velocity, I would a.) consider bullet fit (important with any load), and b.) select a powder known for a high pressure-to-velocity ratio. A tight bullet fit lessens the concern about needed obturation, and the pressure parameters (for your situation) seem to be best served by using a powder known for a fast, high pressure rise. Not a problem for a pistol cartridge.


In a nutshell, your largest obstacle is taking a brittle, and therefore harder, alloy and expecting it to perform well at low velocity. Personally, I would attempt to get the impact effect you're seeking by driving the bullet at higher velocity. The harder alloys perform best when driven fast. Considering your objectives, you will best be served by constructing a backstop intended for bullet recovery; you need the ability to identify if the bullet is actually doing what you need it to do.

Good luck.

[cbrick]

Hi all
I,ave had A Lyman 358665 mold hollow pointed by Eric at hollowpoint mold service
for the use in my 357 marlin 1894. All I will be using this for is pest destruction. My load will only be around 1100 fps. I have heaps of pure lead and heaps of lino type to mix with it. what would be a good ratio to use. something nice an fragile. thanks

Like rob45 I'm a bit confused. What type of pests at what range?

You'll have zero expansion with a lino bullet @ or under 1100 fps, even the HP would just punch through a small thin skinned varmint at under 50 yards, probably not even break off the nose until it hit dirt.

If my memory is correct the 358665 is a plain base boollit and now it's a HP.

Perhaps changing the sentence: something nice an fragile to read: something nice an malleable would be a more effective boolit in that carttridge at that velocity for pests.

Rick

[southpaw]

I think cbrick is right, you want a malleable allow. I would get some tin (either pure, 63/37, 50/50...) and try some 40-1 and if that doesn't work try 30-1. This should give you the mushrooming effect that you want. I should say that I have not tried this in 357 so I am just speculizing. You may have to go to 20-1. I would try 40-1 and work your way to 20-1 and stop when you get the accuracy you desire.

Hope this helps

Jerry Jr.

[Harmon_Greer]

soft lead and micro groove barrel may lead terribly at 1100 fps.

[1Shirt]

If it were me, and of course it isn't, I would think well of the advice give in previous threads. I have a M-94 Win 357 and if I were going to load it strictly for varm, I would use Lino or harder, water dropped with an HP gas checked and would drive it as fast as it would shoot accurately. I would also be doing appreciable testing on water soaked newspaper, thin plywood, etc. to test for frangability. Good luck!
1Shirt!

[geoff rodger]

Sorry I didn't make my self clearer . I only shoot around 1100 fps cause thats were the accuracy's is, and she such A pleasant load to shoot etc . I had A Lyman 358665 hollow point with the large hp allowable. So really I think after the softest project I can shoot with out leading to take advantage of the hp. Also I forgot to mention the marlin has ballard rifling.
I dont understand the ratios . 63/37 which is 63percent pure lead 37 percent lino. but what,s 30-1 ??? I know it A dumb question. gota ask!!!

[southpaw]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The 63/37 and 50/50 was refering to tin/lead mix (solder). You add this to your lead for the tin. This helps the mould fill out better and adds a little hardness while allowing the allow to still be malleable.

The other ratio's (40-1, 30-1 and 20-1) refer to lead to tin. 39 parts lead 1 part tin (pure) = 2.5% tin. If you are useing solder that is not pure tin you will have to find out how much solder you need to add to equall 100. Lets say that you are dealing with the 63/37. It is 63% tin so you need to add another 37% tin. Divide 37 (%tin needed) by 63 (%tin that you have). This equals .5873. It is safe to round that up to .6. You need to add another .6 parts to equal 100% tin. You now need to add 1.6 parts. Subract 1.6 from 40 and you get 38.4 parts of lead (pure) that you need.

If you just added 1.6# of the 63/37 to 40# of lead the % tin would be 2.4 instead of 2.5. However if you did that with the 20-1 the % tin would be 4.63 instead of 5%.

Jerry Jr.

[Lloyd Smale]

id try a gas checked pure lead hollow point bullet. You may need to clean more often but in the field your not going to shoot many in a day and you might find that with a gascheck you dont get leading anyway. If you dont have a gas checked mold try lubing your bullets in a lubesizer then tumble lubing then where there done or using a cardboard or plastic wad at the base of the bullet.

[BABore]

Half WW's and half Pb. Try them air cooled. If accuracy is poor, water drop them. If it comes out better, then run your mix about 35% WW's and 65% Pb and WD them. Should work out fine.

[ozonebob]

Hi Geoff,

Since you have that stash of nice bullet metal, my understanding of what you are asking is what ratios to mix them to achieve your desired outcome. I am assuming you want expansion at a reasonable range starting with a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps.

I would mix one pound of linotype with two or three pounds of pure lead and cast small batches for testing. That should put you in the ballpark. Depending on the results of your testing, you may want to add more lead to make the bullets softer, or more lino to make them harder.

Add a little tin if you need it, and size the bullets to fit the chamber mouths. Be sure and write everything down, including the range results, and you should be good to go.

Ozonebob

[geoff rodger]

Hi thanks heaps for all the info , I,ll start small and start by mixing one pound of lino with 3 pound of pure as ozonebob recommend. I will let you know how I go.

[runfiverun]

that should give you about 1% tin and 3% antimony.
for a bhn of 11-13 or so. aircooled and about 18 waterdropped.
however even at 18 bhn it won't break up like lino will.

[Ithaca1911]

try pure zinc, usually available from zinc WW.

bad for lead, but I'm told it casts beautiful and HORRIBLY BRITTLE boolits when used as a standalone "alloy"