Lyman 525 & NEF UltraSLug

[phaessler]

Well I got out today to do some testing on my NEF 12ga UltraSlug. I put together 6 different combinations, all using BlueDot. I was bound and determined to get it to work. After reading various suggestions and sorting them out by what I thought would make a difference and by my own past observations while trying to get this thing to shoot.
Here are the three I will pursue. Groups are all shot from a bench at 50yds, for now, I do plan on checking them 100, but ran out of time. The black square targets are 4.00" X 4.00". I used 3 shot groups to eliminate the combinations quicker, as you can see I pulled the first shot on my third group.
All loads use the same Lot of BlueDot and CCI209 primers. The slugs were Lyman cast sabot type (using WW), weight was 523gn after hot glue filling.

LOAD 1: WIN AA Grey hull 2 3/4" ; 44gn BlueDot; WinAA12R wad; glue filled slug.


LOAD 3: Fiocchi clear 3" hull; 50gn BlueDot; 12ga Gas seal; 12ga Flex Seal; Win AA white wad, just the cup and petals; glue filled slug

YES, thats four, I pulled the first one.

LOAD 4: Fiocchi clear 3" hull 44gn BlueDot; 12ga Gas seal; 12ga Flex Seal; Win AA red wad, just cup and petals; glue filled slug.


Like I said, was 50yds and only made 6 of each combination.
Just to let satisfy some suggestions, I did not use mica to lube the wads, but I want to still try it. My experiment with nitro cards appeared fruitless as it pushed the slug up and out of the wad cup ( read "sabot") which affected the final assembly height. And the AA hulls have 5 loadings on them now. Will need to duplicate the loads , and try again at 100yds, hopefully the weather holds out.

Pete

[peter nap]

All look great to me Pete. If you want to use a nitro card and I've found it does help with Blue Dot but not with RE 17, use the WAA 12 F14 (Yellow wad). It's a perfect fit.

From what I see though, you're in high cotton already.

The Ultra slug guns are great, aren't they. I had 3 and my son just bought one from Ed Huble.

[OBCoal]

Nice groups. How stiff is the recoil on the 3in blue dot loads?

[phaessler]

Well OBCoal, the 50gn loads lets you know its "Goin' On", but the 44gn load is mild. The "gun", not sure if I can call it a rilfe weighs almost 10lbs, so recoil is there , but mild.
The loads do bark though.

Pete

[tomcat388th]

Great looking groups if #3 or #4 hangs in there at 100 your in great shape. I've been shooting lymans for awhile now I shoot a 2 3/4 inch 45 grain bluedot load out of my ush. Just shot 2 does last Saturday with them.
If recoil ever ends up being a problem invest in a limbsaver recoil pad. I bought the slip on pad for mine med size I needed the extra length on the stock. They really sucks up the recoil.
Justin

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Phaessler where can I buy those Win AA red wads from? To me your load 4 and 3 look very good and promissing. Keep it up and Best of Luck.
Hello Peter always good to see your posts, Very colorfull spicy man!
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[garandsrus]

Pete,

Excellent groups.... Can you elaborate on what you are doing to the slugs and wads prior to loading.

Thanks,
John

[tomcat388th]

VdoMemorie
Precision Reloading carries the claybuster clone of the win aa red wad. I think I read that winchester had quit making them but i could be wrong on that and thinking of something else.
Justin
Illinideer

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Illinideer I appreciate that thank you. I do know you have found some special slug loads that work very well for you could you please care to shed some light on them.
I did find your home made shooting stick very innovative from your post in another forum.
Keep it up and we all can learn from you.
Thank you
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[peter nap]

Great looking groups if #3 or #4 hangs in there at 100 your in great shape. I've been shooting lymans for awhile now I shoot a 2 3/4 inch 45 grain bluedot load out of my ush. Just shot 2 does last Saturday with them.
If recoil ever ends up being a problem invest in a limbsaver recoil pad. I bought the slip on pad for mine med size I needed the extra length on the stock. They really sucks up the recoil.
Justin

Tomcat, I have the red wads and they are old, but I'm sure they still make them. They would be the WAA12.

[phaessler]

I am working off an old supply of WAA12R's , they have been out of produciton now for about 6 years best I can figure, and while the claybuster equivalent are good for shot loads, the resin they use lacks for a slug load, it tears easily.
The WAA12 cup is Indentical to the WAA12R only the height of the cushion is different.
I have also found that the straight-type hulls perform alot more consistent than the tapered-type AA hulls, regardless of 2.75" or 3.00"

Already done it with a grind to fit Tomcat, also like a long length of pull on my rifles so it worked nicely on all accounts.

No range time today, but will be out soon trying the 100yd tests.

Pete

[tomcat388th]

This is my pet load for my 12 ga USH
Federal gold medal 2 ¾ hull
Win 209 primer
45 grains of blue dot powder
Federal 12s4 brown wad with holes punched in petal slits I use a fiskar brand handheld hole punch. The holes in theory should let the wad peel off the slug faster
lyman slug cast out of wheel weights with the edges knurled on a file and backfilled with hotmelt glue. Their tackdrivers out of my gun shooting off my sticks at 83 yards I can usually keep them inside a 3 inch circle off the bench cloverleaf groups. Most of these tips came from the guys over on shotgunworld's slug forum (Neophyte,Eyeshot,Turbo1889) they helped me along when I first started casting and working up loads. Sites like this one have kept me from reinventing the wheel. Here's a pic of the wad with holes.
Justin

[phaessler]

Good looking set-up there Tomcat, I have a bunch of Gold Medal hulls, and will definently try them with the 12s4 wads. I read about the knurling helping the wad maintain a spinning grip on the slug. The holes seem practical, I have found my USH shreds the petals 9 out of 10 times, but it doesnt seem to have an effect on accuracy.
Will get some pics up of my set-up soon.

Pete

[big boar]

I've never heard of using glue in the Lyman slug. Can you direct me to any articles on this, sounds interesting. Just this year I've found that after using this slug, for the last 10 years, I was better off using pure Pb and not WW, at least in my 870. I had ok results with WW but when I started running out of them had to resort to using Pb+small amount of Tin. Huge increase in accuracy, hope it wasn't just a one time thing. By the way my load uses WAA12R wads, I was unaware they are not produced anymore, better see if I can locate some soon. Thanks for the info, this site is great.

[tomcat388th]

Big Boar
It was a tip from one of the guys over on shotgun world it to keep the wad from shoving up into the hollow base of the slug and cutting off the petals. He uses bartop epoxy to fill his. He first sprays the cavity with pledge to act as a release agent then fills with the epoxy. He likes the little epoxy cones to be loose so they fall out during he shot.
I used epoxy for awhile worked fine but had trouble with it curing sometimes I'm sure it was my measuring of the 2 parts. I started using hot melt glue after that. In the begining I was flooding the cavity with spray silicone to act as release agent then pop the cones so they would be loose. Now I don't even bother I fill it up flush or just a touch over. After they've cooled if its humped up to high get a sheet of 60grit sand paper lay it on a table top and sand it flush with the base. only takes a couple of swipes.

Phaessler
In my opinon if the accuracy is there I wouldn't get to hung up on the wads just keep an eye out for leading. I polished the forcing cone on mine which helped but it will still shred a wad here and there. If you get some leading take a copper choreboy scouring pad wrap some of it around a brush for a tight fit in the barrel it'll clean it right out. Just make sure it copper there some knock off copper colored steel ones. I buy mine at dollar general store not sure what brand they are but i always check them with a magnet to be sure.
Justin

[longbow]

Out of curiosity, have any of you that are using the Lyman sabot slug recovered any?

So far every hollow base slug I have shot and recovered has belled and/or collapsed enough to distort it.

This includes:

- Lyman Foster
- Rapine 730560
- Rapine 660500
- slugs from home made moulds with up to 0.100" thick skirts
- oven heat treated slugs

I have tried cushion wad legs, fiber wads, hard card wads, glue filled cavities and combinations of glue filled, thick skirt and oven heat treated.

Oops! One exception ~ a Dixie Tusker which did not distort and I am sure could have been loaded again. However, accuracy from a smoothbore was not very good. This slug was designed for rifled barrels though.

I recently recovered a Lyman sabot slug shot by someone else and it was collapsed as well, but quite evenly as far as I coud tell.

My slug testing has all been with smoothbore and generally with a moderate load of Blue Dot.

I have decided to pursue something more like a Brenneke with solid body and attached basewad.

Just wondering what others have found. I cannot see how consistent accuracy is possible if the slug deforms while firing unless the deformation is symmetrical and exactly the same each time.

If your slugs are not distorting then why are mine?

Longbow

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Longbow could it be that you need to polish and lengthen your forcing cones.
This is the only time it could get distorted!
Simply buy a brake cylinder honing tool for under $ 8 from an auto part store will not only polish your forcing cones but will lengthen also. Try putting a .170 or .250 darker nitro card under the slug for a firmer base.
Hope this helps.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[tomcat388th]

I'll try and did some out of my bank over Thanksgiving to see what they look like. I think one of the keys to accuracy is a good stable wad colum. Thats one reason i prefer the federal wads over winchester. I've done similar loads to phaessler by cutting out the legs from a win aa red wad and substituting 3 .125 nitrocards. It would be red powder cup 3cards and slug in the red shotcup. I've gotten excellent accuracy out of my rifled barrell ush. I would think the skirt on the lyman slug going to flare/bell out some during the shot. The hardness of the lead might limit how much it flares. My slugs are cast out of wheelweights and water quenched I have shot them into trees and dug them out the skirts tend to fragment going through that but the nose stays fairly intack
Happy Thanksgiving
Justin

[big boar]

I've only tested my Lyman sabots in soaking wet phone books but think it gives a fairly good comparison for penetration, especially when done using commercial slugs in the same medium. The Lymans penetrated about the same amount (5", not much more at 50yds) as Win BRI sabots, and 2 brands of Rem(?) Although the skirt did shed, the hole size and depth didn't seem to give any advantage to the other sabots tried.
Tomcat and Vdomemorie, have either of you had any problems with Lymans in Rem870s with the cantelever scope mounts on the barrel? I've let other guys shoot the sabots and all have been fairly successful, one guy could even hit a 8x10"steel plate at 100yds 9/10 times offhand. 2 guys, both with the cantelever system, had bad leading. I figured there may be a constriction in the barrel at the c'lever causing the wad to shed and allow the sabot to smear lead up the rest of the barrel. Just wondering if anyone else has had this occur?

[tomcat388th]

Big Boar I no experiance with a cantelever barell. Dad used to shoot some of my lyman reduced loads in his 870 smoothbore and a saddle mount red dot sight.Comparable to a foster slug for accuracy they were good enough for deer to about 70yards.
Justin