Paper Patch angle - 30° or 45°?

[docone31]

So much effort.
I take a broken piece of vynl venetian blind, cut the end at what ever angle I want, cut the other end at the other angle at the length I seek.
I cut them, and cut them, and cut them. I then have a pile of patches I cut and wrap.
I adjust the length, and angle, as I cut them by trimming the blind as I cut the patch.

[eli]

Actually this is a very simple set-up, make it and you just feed it strips of paper cut to width. After the first cut on a strip, just slide the angled cut end up to your marking for that caliber and make the cut, repeat as needed. That's it and once it's made it's good to go for many calibers and it's easy to make and install another angle-guide as this piece is merely taped in place.

Here is a rough sketch of what I'm suggesting, complete with hole for hanging on a wall or in a closet like a jacket.

Eli

[303Guy]

Thanks for the 'Friskers' tip, eli. I actually saw something like it on Sunday and considered it but decided to think on it first as it might not suite my particular odd shaped patches.

... freeze it until the next block is printed, the result of which is a 'softer' paper ...

Thanks again for that tip, eli. Two test patches in freezer already! This same trick might assist in bonding the two layers of double wrapped paper together and in my case it might improve the paper conforming to the boolit shape!

My latest printer 'template' is using this 'new' paper I have found which actually works in my printer but requires cutting each individual patch with a pair of scissors. Not too tedious actually - unless one wants to do large quantities!

[303Guy]

Well, I tested the 'freezing of the wet patch' idea and would you believe the most perfect patch I've done? I re-wet the patch which soaked up water like blotting paper, going quite transparent. The patch rolled on nice and straight and the ends met perfectly! The 'roll crimped' overhang made a central hole and no tearing over the boolit edge, so there is no 'weakening' of the paper.

Freezing does indeed do something to the patch.

[303Guy]

I tried one or two more 'frozen patches' and again perfect! I measured the result and they are larger by 0.05mm (.002") in diameter. More precisely, the freezing of the patch negates the compressing effect of rolling the freshly applied patch between a plastic ruler and table top.

I'll have to run a few side by side comparisons to see whether the freezing really does make patching easier and neater or whether I am simply getting more practiced at it.

[montana_charlie]

I tried one or two more 'frozen patches' and again perfect! I measured the result and they are larger by 0.05mm (.002") in diameter. More precisely, the freezing of the patch negates the compressing effect of rolling the freshly applied patch between a plastic ruler and table top.

Not sure I understand what you are saying...tell me which of these describes what you are doing.

1.) You cut your patch, wet it, then freeze it.
After it thaws out, you roll it on a bullet.
You roll the patched bullet between the table and a ruler, but the patched diameter is .002" bigger than when using never-frozen paper.
(Did you wet it a second time to roll it on...or apply it dry?)
(What is the purpose of rolling it under the ruler...to compress the paper?)

2.) You wet patch your bullet, roll it under a ruler, then freeze it.
When it thaws, the diameter is .002" bigger than it was after the 'ruler rolling'.

3.) You patch the bullet with frozen paper.
You have to roll it on with a ruler because your fingers are numb.
The diameter stays .002" larger than normal...until the ice melts.

If none of these come close to what you are trying, guess I'll need step-by-step instructions to understand...

CM

[303Guy]

I wet the patch, froze it, re-wet it and rolled it on and it dried .002" bigger than an unfrozen one, both having been rolled with a ruler on the table.

Why roll with a ruler on the table? It was just something I thought of trying because I had been rolling the patched boolit on the table with a finger to get the ends to meet evenly over the length of my 'odd-shaped' boolit. The ruler produces a smaller boolit with a nice and glossy surface which seemed to be harder and more robust. (Also, the ruler trick doesn't 'dirty' the patch nor 'fluff' it like finger rolling does).

For some reason, the 'eye' of the 'crimp/rolled' tail sits nice and round and central on the base with the frozen patch.

[eli]

Thanks for the test result 303Guy, it's good to know the freezing of paper works for you. Please keep us updated on your work with these patches.

This is just speculation on my part but I think the freezing relieves some of the 'stresses' built into the paper, similar to those found in a thinner board cut from a larger plank. The ice gives a stretch to the fibers and so they are 'relaxed' somewhat when thawed and therefore are more plastic/workable.

Or, it could be that the ice fairies are casting spells. Either way, it'll be interesting to hear how well bullets patched with these treated patches preform at the range.


Eli

[montana_charlie]

I wet the patch, froze it, re-wet it and rolled it on and it dried .002" bigger than an unfrozen one, both having been rolled with a ruler on the table.

Okay, that's clear enough, even for me.

As I have a lot of one particular type of paper, and it is a bit thinner than I wish it was, I will try freezing a set of patches to see if it gives me results similar to yours.

I really made a strong effort to learn the thickness of my paper, before I bought it on eBay. But a shooter asking for information from a scrapbooker is working in a zone where 'failure to communicate' is a real possibility.

Lucky for me...when I ordered a bullet mould, the maker made a mistake. It turned out .002" fatter than I wanted, but that diameter actually works better with my 'thin' paper.

CM

[303Guy]

Well, I am busy conducting a 'test'. Three of each 'frozen' then dried, wetted and dried and dry patches. These were dipped into water and wrapped, one of each then repeat. The only one I botched (by tearing the 'fold crimp' was a 'dry' one and the only ones I had to unwrap and do again were the 'dry' ones.

The results are so close. On average, the 'frozen' ones are very slightly larger, then the 'wetted' ones followed by the 'dry'. Very inconclusive!
I selected what I thought were the three least central base 'eyes' and for some reason all three were 'wetted' ones.
For patch alignment, the 'frozen' ones come out on top but by such a slight margin.
For 'making ends meet', the 'dry' ones failed against the other six!
For patch length - one 'wetted' and one 'frozen' one pailed.

Is it worth the extra step? Not until I have tested soaking the 'dry' patches longer. (And the first two I did the other night seemed so promising!)

[montana_charlie]

Well, I am busy conducting a 'test'. Three of each 'frozen' then dried, wetted and dried and dry patches. These were dipped into water and wrapped, one of each then repeat. The only one I botched (by tearing the 'fold crimp' was a 'dry' one and the only ones I had to unwrap and do again were the 'dry' ones.

I really meant to keep my promise to try the frozen patch thing, but I got sidetracked, again.
In order to get ready for the test, I needed some PP rounds to put bullets in.
And...I needed to patch some bullets with 'wet patches' so I could measure them to confirm my old numbers. (As you know, I've been dry wrapping lately)

So, I prepped 15 rounds of charged cases, wet wrapped 15 bullets...and set them aside to dry. When I went to measure them, I found the seams were overlapped by a good sixteenth. I had not shortened the patches (when cut) to account for stretching.
I tore off all of those patches and went to smoke cigarettes and pout for a spell.

While doing that, I was trying to figure a way to use the patch size I had available...and get them on a bullet without stretching...and end up with a wet patch that could dry out for the new measurement I need.

This may make your hair hurt, but I am wetting the patch after it's wrapped on the bullet...and I have totally eliminated any need for a patching board.

I wet the angled part on the beginning end of the patch. That makes it stick to the bullet's surface. Then, with my left hand palm up, I roll the bullet down my left index finger (rolling toward me) using the right thumb and forefinger to do the rolling. My left thumb keeps the patch pulled out straight and keeps a small amount of tension on the dry paper.

When the whole patch is on, I gently dab all sides of the 'package' on a wet sponge to get the paper damp all the way through...but not dripping wet.
Then I roll the base fold over good and flat, and set the package on a 'cup warmer' to dry.

No stretch means the seam is perfect, and wet paper means it all folds flat and dries into a tight and cohesive whole.
They came out looking so good I went on and loaded them into the cases.

I'll do the freeze test some other time...

CM

[303Guy]

I am wetting the patch after it's wrapped on the bullet...

I had to try it! Mine is still drying. You might be onto something there CM!

I did mine slightly differently. I rolled on the dry patch, twisted it in my fingers untill nice and tight and the 'ends' met then while holding the boolit by the base, I wet it under a tap, then did my rolling between two plastic rulers and then I did my 'crimping' trick. Yup, this could be better way of doing it!

I did another one. This time I began the 'crimping' while still dry. Again it worked beautifully. I see a big advantage of doing it like this in that being dry and put downable, one can roll on patches while watching TV then wetting them and setting them up to dry during the commercials!

[clodhopper]

Actually this is a very simple set-up, make it and you just feed it strips of paper cut to width. After the first cut on a strip, just slide the angled cut end up to your marking for that caliber and make the cut, repeat as needed. That's it and once it's made it's good to go for many calibers and it's easy to make and install another angle-guide as this piece is merely taped in place.

Here is a rough sketch of what I'm suggesting, complete with hole for hanging on a wall or in a closet like a jacket.

Eli

Eli.
I had given such a guide some thought. Was planning to make one a couple weeks ago.
But the biggest problem was seeing the marks on the strip and fear of getting my fingers in the business end of the paper cutter.
(23 years of sawmill work, all fingers present)
Then was hit with the idea of scissors guide.

[clodhopper]

The guide is made from two peices of plastic angle sold as corner protecter moulding, taped together and hot glued to one blade of the scissors.

[clodhopper]

The patches come out with a curve in the cut. But the curve is repeteable by holding the paper the same way each cut.

[303Guy]

Then was hit with the idea of scissors guide.

Hang on! That's brilliant!

Now to figure out how to apply the idea to a trapezoidal patch form.

[barrabruce]

Clodhopper thats is the ducks nuts!!!
Still haven't figured out the other side of the guide works and is stuck to the sissors.
Too late tonight to think or get something out.

Cool.

Barrabruce

[clodhopper]

303Guy,
As outlined by 45 2.1 (Thanks that works good for me) on this site, 5 sheets of paper are stapled together
and cut into strips, each set of five strips are also stapled together.
These strips, measured with a ruler, and marked with pencil, are fed into the scissors with guide attached and cut into trapezoids.

barrabruce,
There is not much left on the bottem peice of moulding after cutting the notch for the scissors.
So after cutting the notch, I lined up the floppy guide on some angle iron and hot glued a reniforcement on the weak spot.
The reniforcment was just the corner of the moulding cut down to fit.
This was built with the cheepest pair of scissors to be found. Better scissors may not cut a curve in the ends.
But the curve may come from cutting 5 peices in the same cut.

[303Guy]

I used the word 'trapezoid' incorrectly. A 'trapezoid' has two sides parallel. My patches don't have any parallel sides! They're 'unequal four sided' what ever the name for them would be.

I measured my now dried 'applied dry' patched boolits and they are identical to the 'applied wet' patched boolits. Curious that with the paper I use the ends meet the same with both techniques!

[montana_charlie]

My patches don't have any parallel sides! They're 'unequal four sided' what ever the name for them would be.

I think that would be a 'wrecked tangle'.
CM