.357 boolits

[nonferrous]

I have been casting a lot of 158 gr .38 Spl out of clip on Wheelweights going about 850 fps, they are doing just fine. Now I want to get started with .357 loads at about 1200 to 1300 fps and need some help.
I have clip on and stick on ingots ready to go and a lot of Linotype and monotype. Lyman's handbook, 48th edition has recipes that call out pure lino, but this seems a little rich. I have it in my head that just clip on alloy should be good to about 1000 or better, it seems that pure lino would be overkill.
It looks like 11 to 12 grains of 2400 is in the ball park for nice .357 loads, I really want to stay away from jacketed you know whats and am looking for a nice blend of galena plus.
If I start with clip on alloy in one pound ingots and linotype or monotype that can be added by the ounce, what ratio looks good for this velocity?
Or, would it be better to start out with stick on pure and then add the lino or monotype to get a better mix for that speed?
As always, this forum has the answers and all you have to do is ask.
Thanks

[HORNET]

Try starting with straight clip-on alloy after you verify that your as-sized diameter is right. Work with the powder charge a bit to see what it likes with that boolit design. Lots of members go to 50/50 clip-on WW/ Pure lead for hunting..you can try heat treating some of the WW ones if you want something hard..lots of possibilities. Save the lino & monotype for sweetening up rifle alloy.

[mooman76]

Straight WWs work for me. As long as they are sized right they should work. You shouldn't need straight lino except for really fast speeds mostly in rifle.

[Bass Ackward]

The simple answer is that it is more complex than you understand at this point. And that is OK.

Or maybe it isn't that different after all and a cookie type recipe will work for you. Depends on the bullet design and whether it is GC or not. And the lube you choose. And what size that you must use to prevent leading. All of these things that are gun specific at best. Most of all it depends on the alignment and the bore condition of the gun itself. And that we will never know.

So what is it that you need? You will receive the entire gambit here of what to do and use. In the end it will be Professor Gun and his assistant Professor Target that will be the instructor and grader regardless of what we lay out for you.

So is it important to understand the minute details or to see the big picture? Depends on your results from what they tell you doesn't it? Someone will be a goat and someone a hero. And you will worship or hate based upon those results.

Bore condition drives the train. At least you will understand why now.

[nonferrous]

Thanks guys, It looks like slug city to determine a diameter and that should be .358. I am going to try a few plain clip on boolits at 1200 and see if the leading, or not is ok.
I have had no problems in this area with Clip on's at 850. I have a lot of pure and it looks like that is where I will be burning up the Lino and Monotype.
Thanks again.

[fredj338]

BA is correct, it jus tdepends. You may find straight clipons woek fine. You can water drop to harden them & that may work. You can add lino 3-1 or 201 to the clipons & that may work. The 357mag is @ magnum vel. can be a tough one to prevent leading, but you jus thave to play around & see what will work.

[Blammer]

I've pushed straight clip on ww's, plain base boolits to 1700fps and no leading in my 357 rifle.

I'd try that first with some good lube. I'd recommend speed green.

[nonferrous]

Straight Clip on's to 1700, Wow. Speer won't like that, how they gonna sell anything.
Thats good news, thats what I will do. Like I said, I only want to heat it up to about 1200.
Great, I can save the printers lead to remodel the pure that I have sitting around and send that downrange with aplomb.
I will give it a try ASAP, now if I can just find that keg of 2400.

Thanks again

[GP100man]

I`ve found that nice square flat based boolits sized rite can be pushed pretty hard !!

I got a 357446 & a deGCed 358156hp mold that I can put 14.0 grs. of 2400 under & it & my barrels live in harmony!!!

Which boolit ya shootin nonferrous??? my local GS has some 2400 but shippin is a killer for sure!!

[geargnasher]

Straight Clip on's to 1700, Wow. Speer won't like that, how they gonna sell anything.
Thats good news, thats what I will do. Like I said, I only want to heat it up to about 1200.
Great, I can save the printers lead to remodel the pure that I have sitting around and send that downrange with aplomb.
I will give it a try ASAP, now if I can just find that keg of 2400.

Thanks again

You'll find many of us doing things Speer, Lyman, and many other "expert" sources say can't be done, but keep in mind that published guides are just that, guides, for the exact reasons Bass Ackward stated. It's not the Gospel, but a place for beginners to start.

Just don't let your brain lock down every time you think you understand a new "rule" to casting or reloading, it will severely limit you! There are very few "hard and fast" rules to the physics of slinging boolits because there are WAY too many variables and very few can make an effective, controlled laboratory out of a gunbarrel and shooting range.

FWIW, I've shot lots of .357 magnum pb and bb cast from 13 bhn WW to over 1400 fps with no leading and excellent accuracy in pistols. I don't use gas checks for pistols at all, no need for my calibers and velocities.

Gear

[Bret4207]

As 'nasher said, there are few hard and fast rules. Fit is King with cast and that's about it. In your situation I'd take what Bass said and run with it. IOW- use what you have ( the clip ons) and find out what will make it work. Start with as close to perfect castings as possible in a clean gun using a decent lube- something of at least the quality of 50/50 alox/beewax and start there. I would consider something in .358+ range for sizing and would give my castings 2 weeks to harden to see what they'll really do. A GC mould will make high velocity easier to achieve, but it's no magic boolit. A good fitting PB with strong drive bands can go to 1400 with out issue with straight WW in most guns. And remeber that you can water quench or heat treat for more hardness if you need to. I see no sense at all in resorting to exotic, expensive alloy at the first sign of problems.

BTW- 13.0-14.0 2400 in 357 brass and a 160 boolit will make a dandy load.

[243winxb]

Try for a blend that will give around BHN 15. Alliant 2400 @13gr 158gr., in the 357mag. is a great all around loading. The bullet should be on the large side as they drop from the mould. Size them to .3575" to .358" [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

[Echo]

The only thing I can add o the above is a recommendation to sweeten the clip-ons with about 2% lead-free solder to help mold fill-out. Ten pounds of clip-ons would like to have a measly 3 oz. of lead-free to be a dandy alloy.

[nonferrous]

Thanks,
I am still trying to alloy in a small percentage of Monotype.

[Echo]

Try 5 lbs Ww to 1 lb monotype. Should give ~2+% Sn...

[Shiloh]

Water hardened 50/50 should be fine. I just ran some .30 cal rifle boolits at 1700+.
They fit, there is no leading. Absolutely no reason it cant be done in a .357. If not,
sweeten with lino. Proper fit is the ticket.

Shiloh

[Down South]

I've had real good luck with straight clip-on WW +2% tin added. I water quench for the 357 Mag but may not need to. As said several times above, boolit fit is the key. A good lube is a must.
Have Fun.

[nonferrous]

I have clip on and pure. Clip on as smelted has been working fine for .38 spl under 900, so now I am faced with building up some lead that will work out at about 1200 or more. It is more of a challenge, alloying Lino and Monotype with softer lead than I thought it would be.
I have been told that the way to do it, is to go ahead and smelt and flux the type metal ahead of time, rather than try to introduce the type castings right into the casting pot. Then add the smelted ingots and they will blend better.