Really poor man's hardness tester

[Cloudpeak]

I have quite a bunch of muffin ingots in W.W., range scrap, stick on wheel weights and pure lead. Don't have a real hardness tester so put the brain in gear (generally, nothing but laughs and derision come from this) and came up with a "tester". I wasn't concerned with hard numbers, just relative hardness. BTW, my "drop an ingot on the concrete floor sound test made me think that the ingots stacked up this way (hardest to softest): W.W., Stick on's, range scrap and lead.

I grabbed four muffin ingots, made a steel "bullet" I could chuck in my drill press, grabbed a 3 liter plastic juice jug half full of cast bullets and some #9 wire so I could hang the bullets from the handle of the drill press. I jigged the "bullet" and drill press table so, when the bullet point touched the ingot, the handle was 90 degrees. I proceeded to place each ingot under the point and hang the bullets.

I then put on my "Optivisor's" and placed each ingot under a bright light. I grabbed my micrometer (with the really shiny contact surfaces) and took a micrometer reading of the dimple. I lined up the edge of the micro with the edge of the divot until there was a mirror image in the shiny surface of the micro. I was amazed at the repeatability of the measurements. I took three measurements and averaged them. By way of comparison (W.W., Stick on's, range scrap and lead) the readings were .0633", .067", .07" and .1555".

I was surprised that the stickons were a bit harder than my range scrap and this confirms the "ping" test. I mine the pistol berm and the outdoor range and there are a lot of cast bullets (1/3 of them mine?)

I shoot mid range loads in 9mm (124gr./3.6gr W231) and 45 ACP (200gr SWC/3.8 Clays or 5.0gr W231) and have been using straight wheel weights with good success for quite some time. I'm interested in everyone's idea on an easy and simple way to blend my alloy. )Anything complicated makes my head hurt)

I only have 20 some pounds of stick on's rendered and have around 267 lbs of pure lead, maybe 150 lbs of range scrap and around 550 lbs of wheel weights. I'm thinking I can treat WW, stick on's and range lead the same for 9mm and that 50/50 of any of the three with the pure lead would work for the 45.

Any thoughts or comments? (Besides, "you tightwad, buy a real tester!"

[RP]

I got a ? on my drill press if the handle is in a diff position the levage is stronger or weaker so if the ingots were diff thickness would it effect the reading. But good ideal I was thinking of something along the same line just useing a reloading press.

[zomby woof]

Here's what I do. I had everything laying around.


I use this set up to measure my lead. I keep all my batches and lead scrounges separate. I use WW, lino and pure as my reference. I use calipers and a magnaviser to measure the indentation.

[thx997303]

Off topic, but what kind of filler ya think is in those plastic weights?

I have more than a few laying around, and if they contain something useful, well, you get where I am coming from.

On topic, you use a steel ball bearing and a known amount of pressure to press on the boolit, then measure the indentation and compare to the indentation made on known alloys? Is this correct?

[zomby woof]

Off topic, but what kind of filler ya think is in those plastic weights?

I have more than a few laying around, and if they contain something useful, well, you get where I am coming from.

On topic, you use a steel ball bearing and a known amount of pressure to press on the boolit, then measure the indentation and compare to the indentation made on known alloys? Is this correct?

Yes I put the boolit, ingot, whatever under the press. I get the arm as straight out as possible and hang the weight for 30 seconds. It's very reliable and repeatable. I measure the indentation with calipers and magnavisor (magnification). It works great. With the .312" ball bearing, WW are consistently .157-.160", Lino around .130" and pure lead around .240". I use these for reference and adjust my alloy. The blend usually comes out very close to the math of the two quantities.

The plastic weights are filled with concrete.

[madcaster]

Hmmm,quite intresting...

[Cloudpeak]

I got a ? on my drill press if the handle is in a diff position the levage is stronger or weaker so if the ingots were diff thickness would it effect the reading. But good ideal I was thinking of something along the same line just useing a reloading press.

I don't think a few degrees on the handle one way or the other would make much difference. I picked ingots that were very close in thickness.

[tackstrp]

i use a ball peen hammer and a phillip head screwdriver. after a while can tell which is soft or hard.

I keep reading about leading. wish I could figure out some way to cause leading. I have never been able to see in any of my guns ever. I use lyman 450 sizer and lyman alox black lube. or lee alox thinned with a 358 sizer . or 430 for the 44 mag. Just dont have problems people complain about . I use Titegroup powder. It is dirty but works for me.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Nice set up zomby woof!

I just drop my bearing through a five foot section of pvc pipe onto the ingot.
Measure the dents (as compared to a dent in pure lead) and calculate the BHN.

[303Guy]

... Just dont have problems people complain about . I use Titegroup powder. It is dirty but works for me.

I wonder whether the 'dirty' powder is actually preventing leading, in conjunction with the lube?

I never had any leading with my 44 mag, even though my harder boolits were being flame eroded to the point where the rifling impressions stood proud of where the grooves did not contact the boolit!

[KSpainhour]

Hello,
I have been doing something similar with a drill press, a piece of key stock in the chuck, pressing on a BB. I use a refrigeration scale under the bullet with a piece of aluminum to spread out the force. (I know, not a very clear description). Pretty much just pressing a BB into the lead with a known force. Then I measure the dimple, and plug in the numbers to a spreadsheet. I don't know how accurate it is, but the numbers usually come out to what I was expecting. I made a very simple spreadsheet to do the math for me.


Take Care,
Keith

[Charlie Sometimes]

Great spreadsheet- better than the one I made!
I didn't check your formulas, but what the hey.
Somone here will, I'm sure.
First chance I get, I will compare results.
I will start using yours when I get an arbor press for my birthday next month, or maybe Christmas.

There is a lot of graphite in "dirty" powders to make them flow better or suppress the burn rate, maybe.
I use Titegroup in a lot of my pistol loads.
I like it- very accurate and consistent.
I think Unique is dirtier.

[SciFiJim]

Here is a website that explains BHN testing as well as an online calculator.

http://www.gordonengland.co.uk/hardness/brinell.htm

I can't seem to find a suitable sized ball bearing without buying 100 of them. Does anyone know where to look?

[Shiloh]

Off topic, but what kind of filler ya think is in those plastic weights?

This doesn't speak for all brands and types of weights, but the one I cut apart years ago had a sort of iron shot in it.

Shiloh

[ETG]

Has anyone ever used a spring loaded center punch? It might not give exact readings but would probably tell the difference between ww, lino, and pure lead.

[alamogunr]

Off topic, but what kind of filler ya think is in those plastic weights?

The ones I threw out last spring were concrete.

[nascarkent]

Yep the the one's I've seen in the past have been concrete.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I can't seem to find a suitable sized ball bearing without buying 100 of them. Does anyone know where to look?

I got some smaller ones in a box in my shop- I'll see what I have and let you know.
What would be "suitable" for you?

[SciFiJim]

10 millimeter + or - a little would be ideal.
Thanks.

[Charlie Sometimes]

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