Anyone making their own .19 cal jacketed bullets??

[luke777]

Hello,

I live in Australia and am the VERY proud and happy owner of a ZKW465 rebarreled in 19 Badger.

I am a machinist by trade and cast my own Boolits for pistol shooting.

Importation of reloading components is becoming more and more difficult and the only source of 19 Cal bullets is from the designer and supplier of pretty much all things "19" James Calhoon Manufacturing. This compaly has been exemplary throughout my dealings with them and I want to take the time to reinforce the fact that in no way is my desire to make my own bullets a reflection of their service or product. Their bullets are DEADLY accurate and amazing performers on game, period. If it wasn't so much of a drama with Customs in my country I would gladly keep buying from them without looking at other options.

So, can anyone help me with the concept of making my own jacketed 19 cal bullets? I know that it is possible to swage down .204 Hornady V-max bullets to a very effective 19 cal bullet but I have differing reports on the design that I should use if attempting to make a swaging die.

Any experiences, ideas, help from you all is greatly appreciated.

Kind regrds.

Luke

[deltaenterprizes]

Check out Dave Corbin's site to see pics of dies,contace Larry Blackmon if you wan to buy dies.
A lot of people have dies to use 22 RF brass to make jackets for .224 and 6MM bullets. It should not be hard to go a little smaller and draw the 22 RF cases down to make .19 jackets.

[lastmanout]

Sizing 204 bullets to 19 caliber maybe possible. I would try making a long taper push die (or three) and ram. Maybe need two or three stages. The dies would need a mirror finish, probably hardening and the right lube. The jacket will have some spring-back, so be prepared to make the last die undersize. Jacket could be loosened from the lead core during process-that would not be good. Anyone in OZ than can bore and re-rifle your barrel to 204 or 224? I actually owned a Cooper single shot bolt gun in 19 calhoon. Got a great deal on it because of the wildcat chambering. Always wished it was a 22 hornet or a 22 Kilborn Hornet so bullets woud be available locally. In the end, I sold it as cheaply as I bought it.. One last thought- a wildcat 25 hornet is an excellent cast bullet shoooter, but would never have the trajectory of your Calhoon.

[lastmanout]

I remember reading P.O. Ackley's book. He was an early fan of the 220 swift and 17 calibers. He and his buddies shot wild, feral donkey's and horses to sell for dog food in the 1940's (today you would go to jail). Anyway they made their own high performance spitzer bullets from lathe turned copper wire (or rod). 5 mm would be really close to your diameter. They also discovered a small hollow point filled with a piece of lead solder made them VERY effective. This was in the 1940's. The ideas came back as Barnes X (all copper) and Ballistic tips. I think a solid copper hollow point spitzer, annnealed for softness, would be a fun and easy experiment. It may even work. If it does, you will save a ton of money and time compared to swaging your own.

[wonderwolf]

I have several hundred .181" jacketed bullets would these be of interest to you? A bump die wouldn't be too hard to make I would imagine. I forget the weight of what all I have but I have soft point and FMJ.

[Gently]

Being that you are "down under" I would suggest a undersize casting and then getting with "Caswell AU" and plating your own.

Email If interested at Gently@verizon.net

[bohica2xo]

Plated bullets don't hold up well in a .19 Calhoon, let alone a Badger.

Your best bet in my experience, is a copper solid. Since you are a machinist, I will gice you the thumbnail approach:

Start with 4 gauge copper wire, or suitable copper bar.

If using wire, stretch it straight before proceding. Stretching the wire work hardens it, making it easier to machine. You can stretch it through a die if you want to get the OD very close to finish. If the bullets don't expand to your expectations, anneal them after you finish making them.

Turn the OD to finish diameter. Bore a small hollow point, and finish ogive. Part off.

Or, you can form the copper. You will still need to turn the OD, but you drill a larger hole in the nose. Anneal the part before forming the point. Run the cylinder with the hole into an ogive forming die - this will close the huge hollow point down to almost nothing.

This of course goes a lot faster if you have a spare B&S 00 screw machine in the back of the shop...

B.

[Gently]

"plated bullets do not hold up well in a .19 calhoon"

a myth, if plated correctly it will handle up to 3,800 fps or higher. the key is harder cast before plating.
seperation is caused by poor adheasion, and thin plate. I have heard this in a lot if places about Plated bullets coming apart in flight, and it has happened mostly because people do not understand the process of plating, and then attempt to use acids and acid based plating systems. I intend to disprove this entire theory by making a .223 round that will not fragment under 2500 fps.

I have the technology in plating and I am learning about the casting part here. It is science and physics.

[waksupi]

I intend to disprove this entire theory by making a .223 round that will not fragment under 2500 fps.

Could you please clarify this? I've shot cast .223 at near 2700 fps with no problems. Others shoot cast at over 3000 fps.

[felix]

Smaller the boolit diameter, the more twist allowable for the same accuracy. Boolit diameter must be included in the "formulas/ideas" presented by the rotational theory as presented in previous threads. ... felix

[Gently]

Yes, I can expand....There are three "forces" on a fired bullet
1. detonation and alingment: this is when the round is first fired and the bullet lines up with the groves (or lands) of the barrel, a violent force which can "rip or dent" the plating, headspace is critical (as always) but the plating must be thick enough to withstand deformation.
2. Acceleration: as the bullet picks up speed (we are talking micro seconds)the plate is pushed by tremendous pressure into the lands, and the thin plate can and will seperate.
3. Spin: as the bullet travels out of a rifled barrel it spins as bullets exit it can NEVER go faster than the spin set by the lands. Very rare is a well plated bullet "comes apart" in flight without damage to the plating upon firing.

If my tests are sucessful excess speed 5000 fps will be expected before fragmentation. I have seen well past 2850 at the barrel on other plated bullets a friend of mine aquired from Aimpoint ammo.

New modern systems for plating and harder alloys allow plated bullets to be made easley
and hopefully cheaply.

Test keys are.....Cast Hardness and proper thick plating.

Man I need spell check!

Mike

[bohica2xo]

"plated bullets do not hold up well in a .19 calhoon"

a myth, if plated correctly it will handle up to 3,800 fps or higher. the key is harder cast before plating.
seperation is caused by poor adheasion, and thin plate. I have heard this in a lot if places about Plated bullets coming apart in flight, and it has happened mostly because people do not understand the process of plating, and then attempt to use acids and acid based plating systems. I intend to disprove this entire theory by making a .223 round that will not fragment under 2500 fps.

I have the technology in plating and I am learning about the casting part here. It is science and physics.

Not a myth at all - but your yet to be produced bullet could be called one...

The 19 Calhoon is a 3600 fps cartridge, and the Badger is a bigger brother - holding almost twice as much powder. Calhoon specs a deep rifling, and they bite well. The high velocities are hard on even jacketed bullets. If you ever had a jacketed bullet come apart on the way to the target in a sub-caliber, you would understand this.

Most commercial plated bullets are handgun bullets, and I have recovered more than one of those missing the plating. You are probably right that the QC on most plated bullets is not exactly Palma Match, they are all we have to judge things by.

If indeed you can plate a bullet that will hold up @ 4500 fps reliably, great. I look foreward to seeing them on the shelf. Until then, it is no myth that plated bullets are not up to this particular job.

B.

[MIBULLETS]

Maybe missing something here, but aren't the Remington Power-Loc hollow point varmint bullets plated? They easily take 3600+ fps. The new "Fusion" hunting bullets are also plated I believe.

[bohica2xo]

Maybe missing something here, but aren't the Remington Power-Loc hollow point varmint bullets plated? They easily take 3600+ fps. The new "Fusion" hunting bullets are also plated I believe.

The Power-Lokt bullet goes through a couple of forming operations after plating - at that point for a small run like he is looking at you might as well swage. Have you ever shot a Power-Lokt at high velocities? I have yet to get one all the way to a target from either my Swift or the .22/284. They do work ok from a 223 rem, but never go that fast.

The fusion bullet is also formed after plating. I do not believe that it is available to reloaders at this time, and it is not available in small calibers either.

Given the anti-lead bent of some states currently, and the focus on varmint bullets - I believe the future of small bore high velocity is copper. I have tried to tell others in the high velocity small bore world this for almost a decade. Barnes & others have spent much time & energy developing copper bullets for a reason.

Again, while a plated bullet might be made to work in a .19 Badger it would be a waste of time in this case. Forming cores, plating, forming again, testing... Remington has a bigger budget than the average shooter in Australia, and the Power-Lokt took them more than a year to get to market. And it still blows up in front of the rifle @ 4000+ fps.

B.

[luke777]

This is VERY informative gentlemen. Please keep posting on any info you have. I am equally interested in the copper and plated cast bullet concepts.

Thank you all and keep them coming!!

Luke