Synthetic Motor Oil for lube?

[softpoint]

Starmetal,
It's been years, but you are the only other person I've ever heard mention of that about not running synthetic in older standard transmissions., I was told that the synthetics weren't suitable in them too, and I was told it was because the syncronizer rings wouldn't "brake" the gears for smooth shifting, because it was too slick. I think that could be a clearance issue as well.
If someone really wants to find out how much slicker synthetic is, put it in a 4 wheeler or motorbike that has oil immersed clutches....You will have to drain it and put regular oil back in it before it will move! I hear some of the synthetics now have an additive that addresses that, I don't know.
Sorry if I'm off topic here

[geargnasher]

Starmetal,
It's been years, but you are the only other person I've ever heard mention of that about not running synthetic in older standard transmissions., I was told that the synthetics weren't suitable in them too, and I was told it was because the syncronizer rings wouldn't "brake" the gears for smooth shifting, because it was too slick. I think that could be a clearance issue as well.
If someone really wants to find out how much slicker synthetic is, put it in a 4 wheeler or motorbike that has oil immersed clutches....You will have to drain it and put regular oil back in it before it will move! I hear some of the synthetics now have an additive that addresses that, I don't know.
Sorry if I'm off topic here

Synthetic oil of proper viscocity + friction modifier = all season manual tranny oil for those older units. You are correct about the blocker ring friction being an issue with the synthetics.

Gear

[StarMetal]

Synthetic oil of proper viscocity + friction modifier = all season manual tranny oil for those older units. You are correct about the blocker ring friction being an issue with the synthetics.

Gear

Best to run the correct oil. Additives don't last. The oil engineers said that if it wasn't for the additives disappearing and if you have a good filter system, you almost would never have to change your oil, speaking engine oil. Look how long differentials have gone without oil changes because they are most often neglected.

I've seen a Suzuki Quad Runner ATV run on synthetic with no problems. Early Jap two stroke bikes had a fish oil in the transmission and clutch. Slipperiest stuff I've ever seen.

Joe

[Shooter6br]

I know it is not a good rust preventive

[Ricochet]

Fish oil! There's something I haven't yet heard anyone mention trying in their boolit loobs.

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

Many years ago I worked for a company that built oil skimmers for the NAVY. One of the jobs I had was to take the lower units from British Seagull outboard motors and attach them to Hydraulic motors. We used 1 quart bottles of Mil Spec Lubreraplate for each lgearbox. The gearbox only took about 3/4 of a quart.

as with most Govt work we were not allowed to reuse the oil container once we opened it with a churchkey. I had to be disposed of.


Rather than just dump it on the ground in the parking lot. I drained all the cans into a 5 gal container and used it in my pickup truck. Miy mileage went up over 10mpg extra!!!! WOW!!!

30mpg in a 1971 Chevy 6 cyl 3 speed K5 pickup truck.


So.. I put it into my Yamaha motocycle. Stated the bike and ithe engine ran great. The bike would not move. The oil was so slick that the clutch plates just slipped. Had to drain it all and change the oil back to Quaker State 30w

[Ricochet]

So maybe if you loob your boolits with this stuff, they won't stay in the cartridges.

[Ricochet]

That's only half joking. I got on a kick of using castor oil to lube various things for a while. it's one of the slickest substances I've seen. I had an awful time putting my Government Model back together after lubing with it, because the link pin would just slide right out of the link. Trouble with it is that it doesn't stay that way. It gets very sticky and gummy after a while.

[StarMetal]

Ricochet,

I made lube with fish oil. Beeswax based. Many of you havent an idea of all the stuff I've tried or 357 maximum. Ask ole BassAckwards about my "bubblegum" lube.

Joe

[Ricochet]

How'd it work?

[runfiverun]

now i gotta go to the walgreens.
ultrapure?
and for 2 bucks?
pick up some nipple cream while your there and use that for the lanolin.
a mix of the oil lanolin and b-wax could work quite well.

[StarMetal]

How'd it work?

It work good John. Don't laugh, but it stinks. Felix and I talked about it before I made it.

Joe

[Oldtimer]

Not real sure about powder, but I do know it don't take but one speck of any petro based material to kill a primer. That comes from experience. Bob

[Ricochet]

It work good John. Don't laugh, but it stinks.

You know, I get a perverse pleasure out of going to Kettlefoot on Saturdays and shooting my boolit loads with 7383. The mixture of the lube smoke and the ammonia fumes from the 7383 is distinctive. There's a local vet who's always out there shooting black rifles with several of his buddies, and they throw up an awful fuss about how bad my powder stinks.

[StarMetal]

You know, I get a perverse pleasure out of going to Kettlefoot on Saturdays and shooting my boolit loads with 7383. The mixture of the lube smoke and the ammonia fumes from the 7383 is distinctive. There's a local vet who's always out there shooting black rifles with several of his buddies, and they throw up an awful fuss about how bad my powder stinks.

Were they shooting BP or Pyrodex?

Joe

[Ricochet]

No, black rifles. Those Mattel things that shoot .223s and .308s.

[leadman]

The original additive for the clutches in a posi differential was sperm whale oil, now it is a synthetic.

[cbrick]

A few years ago I did a lot of homemade lube tests. I made up about 15 different lubes using various ingredients as a base and lubes that included various greases, beeswax, castor oil, Lanolin, molly, Carnauba wax, motor mica, Sodium Stearate and more.

My TCR 83 in 308 is a remarkable boolit shooter; it will shoot 1 1/2 inch groups from the bench at 200 meters at just under 1900 fps any time I can do my part. I used this rifle and load as a test standard to compare the lube tests with. This load uses LBT Blue and air cooled WW /2% tin.

The two biggest lessons I took away from these lube tests were 1> It's really easy to make a lube that prevents leading (at least in this rifle), none of the lubes tested caused any leading at all but remember, boolit fit is KING, more important than lube or alloy. 2> Every single lube tested that had any synthetic lube in it gave the worst groups and the worst chrono numbers of all lube combinations tested. I had high hopes for the synthetics but they just didn’t work.

A couple of the combinations came close to equaling the LBT results but none matched it for groups or chrono numbers so I have since stuck with the LBT. Should the time come that I cannot get the LBT I have lubes that I can use without worry but until then I couldn’t justify the hassle of running around collecting the correct ingredients and then making it. In addition, some of these ingredients are not cheap; by comparison the LBT isn’t all that much more expensive and I need only open the mail box.

With about 15 different combinations tested I didn’t even come close to the total possible combinations of just the ingredients that I used. You could literally spend the rest of your shooting life testing just lube recipes. The testing was fun and educational and I will no doubt test more in the future, I recommend anyone with a curious mind to test your ideas, I also recommend staying away from the synthetics for boolit lube, they were very disappointing.

Rick

[geargnasher]

Best to run the correct oil. Additives don't last. The oil engineers said that if it wasn't for the additives disappearing and if you have a good filter system, you almost would never have to change your oil, speaking engine oil. Look how long differentials have gone without oil changes because they are most often neglected.

I've seen a Suzuki Quad Runner ATV run on synthetic with no problems. Early Jap two stroke bikes had a fish oil in the transmission and clutch. Slipperiest stuff I've ever seen.

Joe

Can't let you get away with that one, Joe! First off, it's the multi-viscosity modifiers that don't last, and that's due as you know to heat mostly (can't keep the polymer strings tied that way for long), but the Friction Modifier I'm talking about for the tranny is common Limited slip differential additive which affects shear more than flow, and lasts just about forever in a gearbox.

The reason engine oil doesn't last isn't because of filtration. The soot and microscopic metal (mainly bearing) debris can be filtered out, but at low volume in a bypass type filtration system. The additives don't "disappear", they break down somewhat and change form. The detergents are neutralized gradually by combustion acids, the muli-viscosity polymers break into smaller strings, on and on. The primary reason that engine oil effectively (not actually, as has been correctly stated) wears out is FUEL DILUTION. Engine oil becomes an acidic, watered-down, runny mess that begins to leave varnish deposits and sludge. How to prevent this? Make piston rings that don't leak and internal combustion engines that run at 160* and have a 1-micron filtration system.

The reason differential oils last 10-15 times what engine oil does is that lack of combusion acid/dilution, not because people are lazy. If you were to develop a circulating pump and filter, and run a good synthetic lube, your differential oil might never need changing.

And the most neglected oil of all? Automatic transmission oil. It has to serve as a lubricant, hydraulic fluid, coolant, and fluid-friction coupler (in almost constant shear) and thus has a very hard life. The only reason it lasts as long as it does is the supreme additive package, and the only reason it breaks down is the extreme heat conditions of operation. filtration takes care of a lot, and no fuel dilution makes a big difference here, too.

Greyhound has a very unique and highly effective engine oil filtration system on many of their busses, it will stretch an oil change (IIRC) to one million miles between oil changes, and only limited maintenance (mostly adding oil and maybe changing a primary filter or two) in between. It will even filter a large amount of engine coolant and water if there is a malfunction.

Gear

[StarMetal]

Can't let you get away with that one, Joe! First off, it's the multi-viscosity modifiers that don't last, and that's due as you know to heat mostly (can't keep the polymer strings tied that way for long), but the Friction Modifier I'm talking about for the tranny is common Limited slip differential additive which affects shear more than flow, and lasts just about forever in a gearbox.

The reason engine oil doesn't last isn't because of filtration. The soot and microscopic metal (mainly bearing) debris can be filtered out, but at low volume in a bypass type filtration system. The additives don't "disappear", they break down somewhat and change form. The detergents are neutralized gradually by combustion acids, the muli-viscosity polymers break into smaller strings, on and on. The primary reason that engine oil effectively (not actually, as has been correctly stated) wears out is FUEL DILUTION. Engine oil becomes an acidic, watered-down, runny mess that begins to leave varnish deposits and sludge. How to prevent this? Make piston rings that don't leak and internal combustion engines that run at 160* and have a 1-micron filtration system.

The reason differential oils last 10-15 times what engine oil does is that lack of combusion acid/dilution, not because people are lazy. If you were to develop a circulating pump and filter, and run a good synthetic lube, your differential oil might never need changing.

And the most neglected oil of all? Automatic transmission oil. It has to serve as a lubricant, hydraulic fluid, coolant, and fluid-friction coupler (in almost constant shear) and thus has a very hard life. The only reason it lasts as long as it does is the supreme additive package, and the only reason it breaks down is the extreme heat conditions of operation. filtration takes care of a lot, and no fuel dilution makes a big difference here, too.

Greyhound has a very unique and highly effective engine oil filtration system on many of their busses, it will stretch an oil change (IIRC) to one million miles between oil changes, and only limited maintenance (mostly adding oil and maybe changing a primary filter or two) in between. It will even filter a large amount of engine coolant and water if there is a malfunction.

Gear

I agree. I'll just add that the engine oil has to deal with a lot more condensation then the rear end oil. Had a friend that worked at the Ohio Honda plant. They knew of this old fellow that had a very old Honda Civil. It had an astronomical amount of miles and it and they offered him a deal of his choice of any Honda at that time. He turned it down. Honda wanted the car back to see what they had done right in order for that vehicle to have lasted so long. My friend also told me how concerned Honda was with differentials. While we are on it, remember the rear steep rear gears....I'm talking like 4:56 and 4:88? Back in the 60 if you had a set of those in your car and were dumb enough to take a little trip with them, when you got back they were shot. Flash forward to the Jap vehicles with deep rear gears also and they went for hundred's of thousands of miles. Better steel, better oil?

Joe