Need opinions on levergun

[wallenba]

I'm planning on buying a lever gun for CAS soon. I have no experience ever with one. 1.-- I already load 45 LC, 38 spl, .357. 2.--I am leaning towards an 1866 yellowboy carbine, or an 1873 carbine ( will pick practical over pretty ). 3.--Looking to keep it under $1k. What brand & caliber, and model will give best reliability, quality?

[August]

Strongly recommend the '73 to you. Cimmaron and Taylor's are both Uberti manufactured rifles. I'm partial to Taylor's as a company, but their '73 is no better than Cimmaron's.

The trigger safety on the '73 is very important to the smooth operation of the rifle, and that's why I prefer it to the '66.

If you can go a little higher in price, you'd be well off to get a rifle that's already slicked and stroked by a good smith. It will save you lots of hassles and money in the future. I have two Cody Conegher rifles and love them. I have also used rifles by Will Shootem (Pioneer Gun Works, in Oregon) and think his guns are the equal of Codymatics. I have also handled Long Hunter's work on a '73 and put it right up there with the other two.

Also, getting the exact rifle you want is easier if you go to one of these three, top smiths. They all have a better relationship with Taylors and Cimmaron than any local gunshop. They can often get things that others cannot.

Wait a little longer to make the purchase if you have to, but you'll save so much money and trouble by going first class now.

I would further recommend that you get the rifle in .357. They are much more desirable. .45s are harder to turn when you get serious about CAS and realize the .45 is holding you back (long story). A .357 (by cody, pioneer, or Long Hunter) is money in the bank and always in demand in this sport.

There is a fourth smith that is often recommended by folks. However, their work has diminished in quality dramatically in recent years. I won't name that company, but it's not one of the three I've suggested, obviously.

[wallenba]

August, no rush now, the local SASS boys (Johnson Creek Regulators) will be slacken' off for the winter soon. 'Soon', to me, can be as much as six months down the road.

[cajun shooter]

Depends on why you are shooting as to the caliber you chose. If you want to be a "gamer" then you buy the 357-38spl. Go into history and see how many real cowboys carried a 357, it was not even available until 1935. There are two groups that shoot CAS and are members of SASS. Those who have to the fastest gun and win and those who enjoy shooting the same guns that were carried in the time period. These shooters will also shoot black powder and have a big smile on their face even if they don't win the BMW that's given away. I don't think anyone should decide which they want to be too fast. Go to some shoots and watch both styles and see which one fits your persona. I'm not putting the other side down by no means as we need both groups. I'm letting you know about the choice because you might end up with the wrong equipment.

[wallenba]

Cajun, I don't really care about winning, just want to have fun with the group without too much fuss and trouble. And I'm done fussin' with BP.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

1873 for sure. I would probably go with the 45Colt.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Depends on why you are shooting as to the caliber you chose. If you want to be a "gamer" then you buy the 357-38spl. Go into history and see how many real cowboys carried a 357, it was not even available until 1935. There are two groups that shoot CAS and are members of SASS. Those who have to the fastest gun and win and those who enjoy shooting the same guns that were carried in the time period. These shooters will also shoot black powder and have a big smile on their face even if they don't win the BMW that's given away. I don't think anyone should decide which they want to be too fast. Go to some shoots and watch both styles and see which one fits your persona. I'm not putting the other side down by no means as we need both groups. I'm letting you know about the choice because you might end up with the wrong equipment.

Strongly recommend the '73 to you. Cimmaron and Taylor's are both Uberti manufactured rifles. I'm partial to Taylor's as a company, but their '73 is no better than Cimmaron's.

The trigger safety on the '73 is very important to the smooth operation of the rifle, and that's why I prefer it to the '66.

If you can go a little higher in price, you'd be well off to get a rifle that's already slicked and stroked by a good smith. It will save you lots of hassles and money in the future. I have two Cody Conegher rifles and love them. I have also used rifles by Will Shootem (Pioneer Gun Works, in Oregon) and think his guns are the equal of Codymatics. I have also handled Long Hunter's work on a '73 and put it right up there with the other two.

Also, getting the exact rifle you want is easier if you go to one of these three, top smiths. They all have a better relationship with Taylors and Cimmaron than any local gunshop. They can often get things that others cannot.

Wait a little longer to make the purchase if you have to, but you'll save so much money and trouble by going first class now.

I would further recommend that you get the rifle in .357. They are much more desirable. .45s are harder to turn when you get serious about CAS and realize the .45 is holding you back (long story). A .357 (by cody, pioneer, or Long Hunter) is money in the bank and always in demand in this sport.

There is a fourth smith that is often recommended by folks. However, their work has diminished in quality dramatically in recent years. I won't name that company, but it's not one of the three I've suggested, obviously.

These two guys have said a LOT in a short couple of posts!!

Given what you've said about yourself and your interests, I'd go with a 73 in 357 Mag. I imagine you'll be shooting smokeless loads and you're mostly interested in shooting with the gang, and neither interested in being a gamer or being especially authentic.

Personally, I fall into the historically authentic shooter category, which is why I choose a 66 in 44 Spl, and then converted it to 44 Russian. I load the 44 Russian with black powder and boolit to very closely simulate the 44 Henry RF, so I basically have a reloadable, centerfire version of the Henry, which is the original caliber for the 66. I also shoot this in my repro Colt 1872 Open Top. When I can find a decent repro of a first or second model S&W #3 in 44 Spl. or Russian, it will be my second revolver, and all of my guns will be shooting the same ammo. (They will also all pre-date 1873, so they are real "frontier" firearms, albeit only by a year or two from the SAA & Win73.)

As you can see, to fulfill the frontier role I wish to, I have to go through quite a bit of extra effort, that it sounds like you're not interested in. That's why my recommendation to you is different than what I choose for myself...

[crabo]

It's hard to beat a 357 for fun and lack of hassle for it to shoot well. A lot of different boolits and powder will work in that gun. I have a Marlin 94 CB and I love it.

[NickSS]

Neither the 357 or 45 colt are traditional lever action rounds of the old west. The first was not invented till 1935 or so and the second was never chambered in a lever action until late in the last century not the one before. However, I have shot both the Win 73 and the 66 (actually I have shot all the Winchester lever actions). I personally would pick a 73 carbine or short rifle in 357 for the SASS game and a good pair of Uberti Colt clones in the same caliber. You will also need a short barreled shotgun in either 12 or 20 ga. Now for myself I only shoot SASS matched a couple times a year when I have nothing better to do. However I like to do it with black powder. I use an old hammer double barrel shotgun, a Spencer carbine in 56-50 and a pain of 36 caliber cap and ball second generation colts. I am not fast but I make a lot of smoke and when that 50 cal slug hits a gong it really moves.

[lastmanout]

I used to burn thru 8-10,000 rounds of cowboy ammo for about 5 years. Had Marlin CB's ( 26" long barrel, hi cap mag) in 357,44/40,45 colt. Win 1894 legend 357 (jam o matic)Win 1892 in 32.20Win (miruku) 1892, rossi Puma 357, Uberti 73 44/40 and a uberti 66 45 colt. I only have the 357 marlin cb now. I would opt for a 1873 uberti in 38/357, a carbine -the rifle is too heavy for fast work. Not original caliber- but you can afford more brass and bullets, easy to load. The Marlin 44/40 and Win 32-20 where wonderfully accurate, but a pain the reload the thin brass. My 1866 45 colt didn't always eject, Rossi was rough. etc. Yep 1873. Good luck, Pardner.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Whatever you get, get one that matches the caliber of your pistols so you don't have the added hastle or expense of maintaining additional inventory at the range. I had a Navy Arms (Uberti) '73 in 45 Colt- it was a great shooter. I have shot some 38/357 versions of the '73 that were modified with short stroke kits, etc. FUN, and FAST, but not my style.

IMHO, the '73 is a better choice as the barrel on 66's heat up fast on hot days and will cause you to need a glove on the forward hand. That and you'll have to move it to let the cartridges feed occassionally.

[cajun shooter]

Nick, You are correct on the 45 Colt never being a rifle round but it had nothing to to do with the choice of the 45 but it's ballon head case. The case had no rim for the extractor to work with and thewrefore would not fuction in the rifle. If todays cases were available then you would have plenty of antique 45 Colt rifles. With BP and the 73 in 44-40 you will have the ideal set up.

[EDK]

Practical is a MARLIN 1894 Cowboy (or standard round barrel) in the caliber of choice. Considerably cheaper than a '66 or '73 replica AND a lot stronger action so you can load some SERIOUS loads. The toggle links are smooth, but they are relatively weak.

I've been shooting 44 magnums since 1972...and before that 357. When I got into Cowboy Shooting (a little bit) I bought 44 VAQUEROS and then decided to also buy 357s in case I decided winning was important.

After saying this, I'd like to have a HENRY or 1866 replica in 44 and pistols to match...OPEN TOPS, 1860 ARMY CONVERSIONS or SMITH & WESSON RUSSIANS. They sure would look pretty hanging on the wall of a secured "man cave."

[MakeMineA10mm]

IMHO, the '73 is a better choice as the barrel on 66's heat up fast on hot days and will cause you to need a glove on the forward hand. That and you'll have to move it to let the cartridges feed occassionally.

Charlie, I think you're confusing the 1866 (Yellowboy) and the 1860 (Henry). The 1860 has no forearm and a cartridge follower that you must move your support hand at some point to let it pass, but the 66 has a loading gate (no follower with protruding handle) and a forearm.

Common mistake, that I just wanted to correct for the original poster's sake.

[AJ Peacock]

Wallenba,

I shot with a Cody Conagher (Cody-matic) for several years (here I'm using one to win the Midwest Regional top gun shootoff in 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W9vkhHG6vk ).

I just sold that rifle for $1350 a couple months ago and went to another '73 that was smithed by Colt McCallister (western Michigan). Since you're here in Michigan, I'd highly recommend a rifle by Colt (he's finished as high as 2nd in the world in SASS).

You won't have to worry about shipping, and if you ever have an issue with the rifle, you are an easy drive to get it resolved (not so easy when your smith is several states away).

PM me if you need contact info for Colt.

As was recommended, a '73 in 357mag is the only way to fly. However, if you are just interested in having some fun and want to get started in the game, don't overlook the Marlins. They are cheaper and are easy to slick up at home. I competed with a marlin for several years and never lost a match because of my rifle. I did my own gunsmithing on the Marlin and wouldn't have a problem competing with one again.



AJ

[August]

Depends on why you are shooting as to the caliber you chose. If you want to be a "gamer" then you buy the 357-38spl. Go into history and see how many real cowboys carried a 357, it was not even available until 1935. There are two groups that shoot CAS and are members of SASS. Those who have to the fastest gun and win and those who enjoy shooting the same guns that were carried in the time period. These shooters will also shoot black powder and have a big smile on their face even if they don't win the BMW that's given away. I don't think anyone should decide which they want to be too fast. Go to some shoots and watch both styles and see which one fits your persona. I'm not putting the other side down by no means as we need both groups. I'm letting you know about the choice because you might end up with the wrong equipment.

I asked my brother-in-law, a TG and Regulator, the following question once: How much time difference should there be between a good black powder shooter and a good smokeless shooter? I was expecting him to say three to five seconds per stage. But, to my chagrin, he said -- and I quote -- "NONE!"

I use my Codymatic in .357 when I don't have time to load Holy Black, when I don't feel like cleaning my guns after a match, or when I'm going balz out for speed. I do these things with the .357 in order to improve my performance with my Codymatic in 38-40, in which I shoot only black powder. If you offer me a day with a little bit of a breeze, I can come pretty close in speed with the black powder set-up to that I am capable of with the smokeless.

People who tell you there is more than one kind of CAS shooter probably need to slow down a little bit when they get to the part in the book that relates the sermon on the mount.

There's only one kind of CAS shooter -- the ones that show up for matches.

It's my observation that the ones who continue to show up eventually show up with a '73 in either .357 or 38-40.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've tried a lot of rifles and finally got it right. I have tried an early 1866 Uberti in 44/40 (ok but ammo fussy), a 44Mag Rossi, worked ok, but I couldn't lower the sights enough for cowboy loads, a 38/357 Rossi, bought cheap as a back up, but has seena lot of use, agreat little rifle, getting the action slicked up for my wife as her starter rifle, 44 Mag 1894 Marlin, worked ok, seems to bite me a bit and needs slicking up, it is a good rifle, but an ugly little sucker, I'm not real fond of it, but they work and finally I got an 1873 Uberti in 44/40. This was gunsmithed by one of the icons in the game here and he musta had a hangover because it didn't work after sending it back and then getting another guy to work on it, I managed to get it to fire 6 out of ten (and thats with Federal Primers!). Finally got my mate to work on it and it now works fine. Slick as frog snot and feeds like a machine gun. The loading gate is the best in the business, you just pop a round in there and it will sit there without trying to jump back out, brilliant feature. The opening is big and rounded and easy on the fingers, a big point if you have big fingers (that are a bit soft ). Greta rifle and it has upped my speed markedly.

Summing up, if it is just for cowboy shooting the 73 is the go and if you are not a big bore fan like me, 38s in the 357 rifle are a fuss free option. I wouldn't be using any factory 357s in it though, they are pretty weak.

If I was also going to use it for hunting as well, the Marlin would get the nod. You can shoot 44 Specials in cowboy matches, full house 44 mags for hunting and even drop a scope on it for when you are afield.

I would prefer the 44 mag and find it a better all rounder, but you are already using the 45 Colt, maybe that would be better for you.

Good luck with it and tell us what you decide on.

I forgot, if you are going to spend money on short stroking the rifle, I'd get drop in parts rather then have a gunsmith alter the action (this was done to mine and it will wear out and is pretty much irreversible, if you use a short stroke kit, yo can convert it to standard if you ever want to sell the piece and use the kit in another or sell it seperate).

[O.S.O.K.]

Shot CAS for many years (Three Cracker Jack, SASS #10456).

I agree with the following:

1) pick the same caliber as your revolvers.
2) if cost is at all a factor, go with 38 Specials - you will shoot a lot of rounds!
3) pick the levergun that fits you the best and offers the sighting option you need.
4) develop loads that shoot well in your chosen levergun and worry about the revolvers second - the revolver's are less important in terms of accuracy.

I got started pretty early on and chose Ruger Vaqueros in 45 colt for my revolvers and started with a Winchester 94 trapper in the same caliber. I later switched to a Marlin CB in 45 Colt and never regretted it.

My load of choice was 7.0 gr W231 under a 250 Laser cast boolit - which gave 800 fps in my Vaqueros and 1000 fps in my Marlin. This would be considered "hot" by most CAS shooters today but I enjoyed the recoil and it made it particularly satisfying to beat others shooting pop gun loads

If you don't have leather yet, I recommend http://www.epsaddlery.com - they are high quality, authentic and reasonably priced for the quality.

[wallenba]

[QUOTE=AJ Peacock;689177]Wallenba,

I shot with a Cody Conagher (Cody-matic) for several years (here I'm using one to win the Midwest Regional top gun shootoff in 2005 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W9vkhHG6vk ).



PM me if you need contact info for Colt.

As was recommended, a '73 in 357mag is the only way to fly. However, if you are just interested in having some fun and want to get started in the game, don't overlook the Marlins. They are cheaper and are easy to slick up at home. I competed with a marlin for several years and never lost a match because of my rifle. I did my own gunsmithing on the Marlin and wouldn't have a problem competing with one again.

Dang AJ thats FAST! Don't see myself getting to that level ever, I would need to practice everyday. So I will keep it simple for now. The Marlin may be my best option.

[Lunk]

I have not shot CAS but when debating on buying a new levergun it came down to a Rossi 92 in .357 or a Marlin 94 in .357. The 92 has a stronger action but the rifleing is 1 in 28 so heavy bullets were out. The Marlin ended up winning (for me) due to the 1 in 16 twist. I don't PLAN to hunt with it but if I feel the need I'd like to know I can load up 180's and not have them tumble after 30 yards.
Just my 2 bits on it.

P.S. I LOVE my new Marlin.