25 cal. Cast bullets

[Ben]

My friend in TX has loaned me the plain base, 85 gr. RCBS 25 cal mold. I think it is identified as 25 - 85 CM

I used a mix of W-W's with a " touch of tin " today and cast around 400 of them. The bullets are very round and filled out very nice. They are coming from the mold at .2594 " I have a .258 sizer.

I have a 250 Sav. w/ a 1 - 12 twist ( my primary application for this bullet ), I also have a super accurate Ruger Model 77 ( old model ) 257 Roberts and a Ruger #1 25 / 06.

Any suggestions on where I should start with load development. I figure with the plain base bullet, I'd need to stay below 1,500 fps.

I have a pretty wide variety of powders to try........Unique, 2400, AA 5744, IMR 3031, IMR - 4198, IMR- 4227, IMR - 4895, RL - 7, etc..........

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer ,

Ben

[sundog]

Ben, starters? 5.0 Unique, and see what happens. sundog

[Ben]

5 grains....Sounds about right.......Gee.... I've shot some impressive groups ( in .30 cal guns ) with Unique in past years. I once had a load for a 30/06 with 11 grains of Unique that would " chew out a ragged hole at 50 yards ."

The name UNIQUE fits the powder's performance , in my opinion.

Thanks,

Ben

[sundog]

Ben, I kinda know whatcha mean about Unique. I've used 12.0 Grn Dt and Lee 160 RN for fire forming '06 brass, and danged if the load didn't shot purdy durn good. And then, we go off on a tangent spearmintin' with every danged powder and boolit we can find, when we might have had the best load to begin with! Go figure....

That 25-85-CM will shoot okay with 5.0 Unique. Used it cowboy matches and it works. Nothin' fancy, just works. sundog

[felix]

Ben, I would have started with Unique also, mainly because you have no gas check. Start at 5 grains, then 6 grains, then 7 grains, and no more than that. We're talking the 250 Savage here. Clean the gun and shoot a group of 3 for each load above. Clean the gun and work backwards in sequence.

If the first group is better than the third using the foward sequence, and it remains that way using the reverse sequence, then you know the approximate load required is circa 5 grains.

If the 7 grain load is best in both strings, then you know that circa 7 grains is about right.

If the 5 grain load is good going fowards, and the 5 grain load is bad going backwards, then you know 7 grains is too much for the boolit/lube/powder combo.

After you get the 250 in good shape, just add 2 grains to the load for the 25-06 which will put you in the same ball park for that gun.

felix

[Ben]

Thanks Felix:

I've got 3 ponds / lakes near me with some large turtles in them. The owners have asked me to come and remove the turtles. It can be done with a .22 rifle. I figure however if I could get this 5 - 7 gr. Unique load " fine tuned " for my .250 Sav., I could really work on those turtles.

Some of those turtles are 20 lbs +.......That 85 gr. cast from the 250 Sav. would be about right for those turtles.

Might just be some fun , cheap shooting.

Gee....that is what casting and shooting is supposed to be about anyway isn't it ?

Speaking of fun........I really enjoy shooting my .358 Win with cast bullets, see the photo below :



Ben

[fourarmed]

Instead of shooting those turtles, you might think about a trap. They are superb eating, and 20 pounders would be worth the effort to butcher.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Ben, great group with the .358. Did you get your house fixed up and moved back in yet?

[9.3X62AL]

I have been doing some good work with 12.0 x 2400 in my 250 Savage and NEI GC 100 grainers that resemble a RG-4 pattern shrunk in the wash. The velocities might be a bit much for plain base--circa 1600 FPS.

[sundog]

Ben, yea. And your investment in .22 RF would prolly be way more than what you pay for primer and powder to put together some 25-20. Even though I like to shoot .22, it's too darn expensive for decent ammo. Cheaper to shoot cast in a center fire! sundog

Turtles you say. Careful of ricochettes.... Sounds like fun.

[StarMetal]

Sundog

No so, I have a Remington 541-S Sporter that will put alot of rifles to shame and to boot with "cheap" 22 lr ammo, like the box of 550 hollowpoints from Federal that you can get very cheap at Walmart. To tell you the truth I haven't found anything this rifle doesn't shoot well yet. Don't sell the 22 lr short economically, they are great rifles and inexpensive to shoot. I shot a so many turtles when I lived in Ok that I started to feel bad about it. Used a 22 rifle with CCI stingers, no ricochets and turtle blasted in two pieces. These were those big kinda flat mud turtles I guess you'd call them. The snapping turtles I shot I took home for soup. Shot some of the biggest dang bullfrogs I ever seen in OK. I really liked OK, told my wife we should have never moved.

Joe

[felix]

Superior group, my friend! That long boolit should shoot the same group (angle) with that same load at 300 with the 12 twist that you probably have in that barrel. That flat point will hate any quartering winds, so be leary of that on any long shot. ... felix

[Ben]

I loaded 50 rounds of 250 Sav. with the 85 gr. plain base today. I sized to .258. I'll give a range report soon.

Thanks to all,

Ben

[billw]

Ben, You said it had a 1:12 twist. What is the rifle mfg?

[Ben]

billw :

My rifle is a custom rifle built on a Steyr 98 Mauser action:

Take a look at the photo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...50%20Sav/3.jpg


Thanks,

Ben

[Ben]

Well.........I shot the 250 / 3000 today....I only had " marginal results "
I'll attach links to a couple of photos of groups that I shot today. I'm wondering if these 85 gr. plain based bullets are ever going to shoot as well as a gas checked design......I've got my doubts.

These were my best groups today, you don't want to see the worst ones, believe me !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...%2025-05/2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...%2025-05/1.jpg

Thanks to all of you who have responded to my original post ,

Ben

[felix]

Ben, I saw your targets today. The 2400 is too slow as indicated by the vertical group. You need to increase the powder, or go to a faster powder. I suggest to say with slowing down the RedDot a little by switching to 4756 at the same loading, say 6 grains. Try and stay with single base powders in this instance. Reason is because the extra energy in the double base powders might burn the base of the non-gaschecked boolit as you work up in speed with the same powder number. ... felix

[Ben]

Thanks Felix:

Yep, the 2400 was definitely stringing........OK ....good advice...I'll try some 4756 and continue on " My .25 caliber journey ."

This is about 5 X harder than finding a nice shooting load in my .30 cal. or .35 cal. rifles with cast bullets.

I guess that it goes something like this......." When you've got a small bullet and it has a small irregularity......It responds in a big way."

Am I close ?

Ben

[9.3X62AL]

The 24's and 25's have been mostly good to me so far, although the 25-20 WCF has driven me nuts with what appears to be a diametric problem. The Stilwell .260" sizer arrived a couple days ago, and I'm hoping the .002" larger boolit will tighten groups up a bit in that caliber. In 250 Savage and 25-35 WCF, the .258" sizing seems to do all right.

I am a RUTHLESS sorter of boolits for the 24's and 25's, although I haven't done the weight-sorting bit yet. If they are the least bit visually imperfect--they get re-cycled. Unlike some who report here, I've had no problems with remnant drive bands from these skinny boolits showing up in 38 caliber pistol slugs. Granted, they could be wholly covered by adhering metal, so I can only hope the 25 caliber cores are aligned coaxially with the larger boolit's diameter.

[beagle]

Ben...mod some of those like the article I sent.

Think I sent some to Deputy Al also when I was messing with that.

Makes them shoot right./beagle