Can a Stevens 25 RF be converted to 25-20 WCF?

[Suo Gan]

My question is about converting a Stevens Favorite chambered in 25 rimfire over to a 25 caliber centerfire preferably 25-20 Win. I have heard that some have done this using the .25 auto cartridge. So can this be done, what steps would I need to take, and would the action be strong enough for the 25-20 Win.?

I know, I know, I come up with some hum dingers don't I?

How do you weigh in? WAG's?

I am tired of the thing just sitting there with nothing to do! A gun without a job is a pure shame.

[Cactus Farmer]

Line it to 22lr. Favs are NOT strong! No centerfire 25-20 factory loads would be safe. Yes, the firing pin needs to move for the 22 also but not as far as for a CF.
Made a 32 RF into a 32 S&W once.....it was great until the fellow loaded some "blue pills", still haven't found the breach block. He wrecked a really nice,quite rifle.......

Did you get my check yet?

[pietro]

[Line it to 22lr. Favs are NOT strong! No centerfire 25-20 factory loads would be safe.]

+ 5,287

.

[OldBob]

Or if it is in nice shape and you want to retain its original condition, you can turn a .22 barrel blank offcenter so the rim lines up with the firing pin, mount it with the offset up , cut a relief for the extractor and you are good to go. I did one of these for myself and one for my BIL and they made nice little rifles.

[gnoahhh]

Do anything with it as long as it's a rimfire (and not a magnum rimfire either). "You'll put an eye out kid" if you convert a Favorite to centerfire. Bad ju-ju.

[John Taylor]

I get quite a few 25 and 32 rim fires to convert to 22LR. They are not hard to reline. If you want a good shooter go with a hammer forged liner from T.J.'s 859-635-5560. If you want someone ells to install the liner, ask T.J.'s who he recommends. The firing pin may need to be moved, some work some don't. Moving the firing pin requires a mill or a good drill press. You will need to build the extractor up or replace it. http://www.wisnersinc.com/has extractors.

[Bret4207]

Besides the strength issue the dimensions are wrong. The 25 RF uses a .251 bullet, the 25-20 the more standard .257. Being a fan of most Stevens rifles and the ballistics of the 25RF I always liked the idea I saw posted some years back- convert the rifle to CF and size 22 Hornet brass to 25 RF dimensions. Standard 25 cal boolits can be sized down to the .252-.254 you'll need. Yes, it would take a custom die, but at the time CH4D was offering dies for around $100.00. These days I don't doubt someone like Buckshot could whip you up a suitable set of dies for around the same $$$.

I had my eye on a primo Stevens Marksman in 25RF to do this with but the seller backed out. What a great woods walking rifle that would have made.

[gnoahhh]

Bret,

What you describe doing is all well and good, and if one kept pressures down to sane levels would probably work. The issue is not that necessarily, but one of safety margins. What's to happen if a heavy powder charge or God-forbid a double charge gets through? Easy enough to happen when dealing with tiny charges of powder even in a small case like the Hornet. The Favorite action, and others of that ilk, just weren't designed/built with that in mind. In original RF configuration they are nifty little guns as-is.

In addition, what's to prevent a future owner of the gun from injuring himself/bystanders through ignorance? In the land of ignorance, exuberance trumps caution. We can't be around forever to guard over over our guns. Sooner or later some idiot will take a look at the Hornet headstamp and think high speed. The emergency room nurse will think moron.

[HORNET]

Even better, there are a couple of places that still get runs made of .25 RF once in a while. They're far from common , but they are available on a limited basis. Same with .32 RF. If the inside of the barrel is still good, it might be worth pursuing. I know a couple of people that said it was the perfect squirrel gun.

[pietro]

[does anyone know, have available, can steer me to the SAAMI specs and max for the Stevens Favorite? It should be rated at least 20-25,000psi? ]

[I can't help it I keep going there. I just don't want anyone getting hurt.]


20-25,000psi ? R U SERIOUS ? ?

No disrespect intended, but you should "help it", and yourself, with a heavy dose of cold water/self control - before somebody DOES get hurt/burnt, playing with fire.

I can't emphasize it strongly enough - fahgettaboutit ! ! Pleeeze !

Those rifles were made eons before ANY kinds of safety standards were set up in this country, certainly well before SAAMI was even somebody's wet dream.

The knowledge of the limitations of the various vintage rifles & actions was hard-won, through trial/error - and an error was a serious "OOPs, we better not do THAT any more !" - after a gun blew up.

I don't know of any waiting lists, for new eyes, etc - because when one of those oldies hand grenades, some plastic shooting glasses aren't going to be much help.

.

[roadie]

The .22 Mag. is loaded to pressures in the 24-25000 range and a .22 Mag will beat that Favorite to death very quickly. Possibly take it apart.

The problem as I see it, is that you have'nt researched it yourself on a possibly very dangerous idea. You can't compare modern Favorites to older ones, not even close.

I've done these kind of conversions on modern rimfires, but I knew what I was doing going in. No way would I change that Favorite to anything other then a .22 rimfire.

I like Bret4207's idea and it takes the factory ammo out of the equation, would make a sweet rifle. But it's only for those that truly know what the risks are. The pressures are what you make them.

This is'nt something to play with.

roadie

[Bret4207]

Bret,

What you describe doing is all well and good, and if one kept pressures down to sane levels would probably work. The issue is not that necessarily, but one of safety margins. What's to happen if a heavy powder charge or God-forbid a double charge gets through? Easy enough to happen when dealing with tiny charges of powder even in a small case like the Hornet. The Favorite action, and others of that ilk, just weren't designed/built with that in mind. In original RF configuration they are nifty little guns as-is.

In addition, what's to prevent a future owner of the gun from injuring himself/bystanders through ignorance? In the land of ignorance, exuberance trumps caution. We can't be around forever to guard over over our guns. Sooner or later some idiot will take a look at the Hornet headstamp and think high speed. The emergency room nurse will think moron.

You did catch the part where I said reform the Hornet case to 25RF dimensions right? Much , much smaller than a Hornet. I understand what you're saying, but that's the same caveat that goes with any wildcat.

[shotman]

Well the action would hold. There have been several converted. but Its a night mare to rework the action. to get the fireing pin to hit center. Lots of machine work.
I took a 22 wrf and bored the chamber to 22 mag with a 1/4 in drill and it works fine. shell is little problem to insert and extract . but works good and has for 15 yrs

[John Taylor]

I have heard of pressures running 24,000 + for the 22 LR. Probably higher with a tight chamber like a Bentz. The favorite was made after smokeless powder came along but before the modern high velocity ammo. Best to stay with a standard 22LR chamber and use the more expensive standard velocity target ammo. The action is plenty strong for the modern ammo but the higher pressure can cause ruptured cases around the extractor, which is also where the firing pin hits.

[John Taylor]

Suo Gan, you need to find a new gun smith, 2 years is a bit long to wait.

[gnoahhh]

I would re-line the thing to .22LR and be done with it. There are plenty of other better single shot actions around that would be safer to mess with, and work up into dandy little walking around rifles.

Bret- gotcha. Misread your post, my apologies. I was picturing a .25 Hornet loaded to .25RF pressures. Still a pretty fair job of work to convert the firng pin to CF. Is it really worth all that aggravation? Doubly so if one is paying a gunsmith to do the work. In the end, one still ends up with a Favorite that's a bit edgy as far as safety margins go.

I'm not sure whether we're talking about a modern Savage-made Favorite or a vintage one. I would feel a lot better about the project if it were the former.

[trevj]

In addition to the previous assertions, I will add the following, as much for you, as for the next guy that stumbles across the subject, looking to convert this action.

Firstly, the action is a casting, and none too high a grade of work. As a casting, it tends towards being a bit brittle. I have, and have seen several more, actions with tangs broken off, without any signs that they had any flexibility at all. Plenty strong enough for it's intended purpose, using Black Powder pressure range loads in low powered rimfire calibers.

Next, the barrel is retained by a single set screw or thumb screw. Not terribly positive. If it works loose, unnoticed, it plays merry heck with a 22 rimfire load. I don't want to be around one when the pressures are much higher.

Also the shank diameter is, by default, smaller than I would be happy with.

Taking a good look at the internals, one finds that the entire load of firing this action, is taken up on two screws, the screw that the breech block pivots on, at the front, and the screw that the lever pivots upon.
If the breech block is already riding on the shoulders of the action mortise, then the screws are already bent or badly worn.

Notice also that the screws are not supported all the way through the action. they have a gap between the walls of the action and the breech block sides. This allows the screws to bend or flex. They are not very big screws.

That pretty much spells out that the Stevens Favorite action is barely a candidate for modern High Velocity 22 shells.

Never played with a modern version of the action, although I can see from the photos, that the internals appear to be powder metallurgy parts, rather than machined. I cannot tell you if the gaps have been left internally, that would either have the screws directly in shear, or unsupported.

Other guys may be willing to convert theirs, I won't. Stevens used their Model 44 action (considerably larger and heavier built than a Favorite, but internally similar) for the Hornet chambering, and discontinued it very rapidly, due to issues with headspace and wear. The 44 has considerably more material and larger screws, holding it together. If nothing else tells you it's a bad plan, that the factory would not carry on building Hornets, should.

As one guy put it so well, "God may love ya, but he ain't giving you another set of eyes!"
Building and shooting one with much reduced loads does not stop ones offspring or theirs, or others, at some point, from loading up a full power round, and trying it out. That is also something I would not wish to be responsible for.

Best bets for a small action along those lines, would seem to be the Falling Block Works Model J, or perhaps one of the new EA Brown Model 97 actions.

Cheers
Trev

[Bret4207]

Here is the same question asked by some poor sap at another site. Rumor has it they hung him at sundown from the tallest oak tree in the county.

http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13179

Whoa. That dude is out there.

[Bret4207]

Here's an option for those like me who love the Favorite. Only $$$ prevent me from having one.

http://www.varnerguns.com/

I own and have owned several Favorites. Some were in far better shape than others. If you get an old ratty one then it pays to go through and replace the screws, bush the holes if needed and generally clean and tighten the old girl up. Given a decent example I have no qualms about using modern hi-speed ammo in them. I would personally have no issue with converting to a centerfire version of the 25RF but as with any wildcat that decision is best left to the owner. The original 25 Long RF ballistics were something like a 60 gr boolit at 1150 fps. Considering the difference in the dynamics of back thrust in play I don't see where sticking to those levels would unduly stress a tight Favorite. But, it's up to the individual in the end. I personally would prefer the Marksman action or a #4 Remington Rolling Block.

[NoDakJak]

What's this? Trevj raises some good points but I agree with you completely Bret. I have two 25 Hornets partially completed. Both have been shot. Some 25 rimfires have chambers so generously reamed that unfired Hornet brass will fit. It only remains to thin the rims and trim the case to have a centerfire version of the 25 Stevens. I have an almost new conditioon Model 27 Marlin pump that is awaiting this use. I have a spare centerfire breechblock so won't even have to modify that. I have been cobbling up ammo with 25-20 dies but made a straight line bullet seating die. I say bullet because it is a bit tight to use with boolits. I am presently imiting my velocities to 900 fps. I had not thought of using the Remington #4 action but have one laying there. It is an action only so I believe that I would thread the reciever for the barrel. Neil