New to PP and some questions.

[mellonhead]

I have never tried PP and have a few questions. I have a 243 Win. that I've been thinking about PP for. I was gonna make a simple drop out mold for it. I was wondering what diameter I should make the bullet. Kinda jumping in hard with both feet, but its something I really want to try and make work. Any advise would be great. Thanks.

Toby

[303Guy]

Toby

Welcome to the club. I'm a paper patching newbe so your progress will be my progress! I have played around a bit with the actual patching but have not done much range testing. I have a 303-25 which is almost in the same class as your 243 so perhaps our challenges are similar. I have fired precisely one PP boolit in the field from the 25 and it appears to have been the killing shot. (That would make the POI or the PP boolits pretty close to the J-word's I am sighted in for). I had wanted to patch for my 22 hornet but found the boolit too small for my less than prime hands). The 243 boolit would be about the same length as my 25 boolit so we are comparable. When you say "drop out mold" do you mean a straight sided, one piece mold? I use that type because of the simplicity and have found them to have 'other' attributes. Since you a making molds, why not make a sizer die at the same time. that would give the advantage of being able to manipulate the final casting size by simply changing the sizer dims. My sizer is for a two-diameter so I use a mounted ram and push-out punch and a free die. (I have a three station press).

This is the boolit my set up produces.



The push-out, top-punch.


And the die.


The casting gets pushed into the die then the die gets moved to the push-out station.

[leftiye]

What's your gun's bore measure? Make yer mold to cast bore size plus one thou.. (more ain't bad necessarily) - patch er up and size the patched boolit to groove plus one or two thou. over. Paper thickness can be measured to patch in the ball park, but thicker paper will size down, and when it won't, then the boolit will (size down with the patch on board). If your boolit is already bore plus one, then you won't want to size it more though. If your boolit is bigger, this can be a plus.

[303Guy]

Yeah, of course i didn't answer your actual question! Well, leftiye has.
There does seem to be some variation to the theme. I can only tell you what gave me good 'test tube' results - and what didn't. Soaking cig paper patches in sticky lube does not work! (Test tube and range tested).

I can tell you that a reasonably strong alloy can obturate on firing.

In my guns I aim to fit the boolit to the throat. I also aim to fit the boolit heel to the unsized neck. Other folks size to just over groove diameter and seat the boolit as one would seat a J-word. My 25 is going to be seated conventionally in a sized neck. (That gun does not have a military 303 Brit type throat).

I can also tell you that it is a heap of fun, this patching thing!

I can also tell you that the bore just gets cleaner and shinier!

Another thing to point out, some folks seat patched boolits past the neck/shoulder junction as they would a J-word. I don't because my 303 Brit was designed to have the projectile protruding far and both my Brit and 25 cases have 'dough-nuts'.

[mellonhead]

Yes I mean a straight wall mold. How much over your desired bullet diameter do you make your molds? Basicly how much shrinkage do you get.

I will slug my barrel and use my bore diameter as my mold diameter.

I have an idea for a mold with the sprue plate and handle mounted, and a interchangeable inserts for different size and shapes of bullets. That way the only thing I have to do when I want to try a different caliber or bullet shape is to make a new insert. I have a bunch of brass. I was thinking about using that for the inserts and a steel body with the sprue plate and handle mounted to it.

Thanks for the info.

Toby

[Dframe]

I really like your idea about interchangable inserts. Pleas keep us up to date on your progress.

[longbow]

mellonhead:

You need a cast boolit of about bore diameter so the mould should be a thou or two over.

I make pushout moulds for paper patched boolits, smooth sided boolits to be knurled and shotgun slugs and they work great. I posted photos some time back of a mould as you describe with inserts for the actual "mould" and the rest as a mould holder. Not sure if they are still there as I had to delete a few photos.

Best to machine the mould or insert slightly undersize then you can lap it to final size ~ doesn't take long with steel and even less time with bronze so brass would be quick to take out a thou or two.

I use 1 1/2" round bar for the mould or mould holder and 3/4" round bar for inserts. It is real easy to make a D bit to suit then ream a piece of 3/4" round bar for a new insert.

Ideal used to make these for paper poatched slugs but they used what looks like a casting and quite small so I would think overheating would be a problem. I find the 1 1/2" bar works well.

Since I just have a lathe I stick with round bar but Heathydee has a very good write up on homegunsmith on a pushout mould he made with square bar. The square bar is a little better for sprue plate attachment and I guess I could chuck it up in a 4 jaw but I have always used round bar with good success.

I would be interested in seeing what you are doing. If you can't find the photos of my mould with a search I can repost or e-mail if you are interested.

Good luck.

Longbow

[leftiye]

Generally, a mold of .30 caliber needs to be .002" or .003" larger than the boolit it is meant to produce. A .45 cal mould should (I haven't tried this) probly be at least .004" bigger than the desired boolit. If you err, err on the large side, the boolits can always be sized down.

[longbow]

I guess I take the opposite approach. I would rather make the mould slightly small and lap to get the size I want to paper patch so I don't have to size.

Also, while I have not sized smooth boolits I would think they would be harder to size as there is nowehere for the lead to go but be "extruded".

With lube grooves, the lead has a place to be displaced.

Longbow

[mellonhead]

Well I got a mold started today. I made the housing out of aluminum. It does not have a sprue plate on it yet, but you get the idea. I am planning on making my inserts out of brass. Do any of you think I will have a problem with the brass for inserts? The flush mounted capscrew will hold the insert in. The exposed capscrew will hold the sprue plate and the pin is the sprue plate stop. I also need to attach a handle. I have a piece of 3/8 brass rod here somewhere I think will work good for a shank to go between the housing and a handle. I need to gather up a piece of steel for the sprue plate also. Would I have a problem using Stainless steel for the sprue plate? I have a piece that would work perfect, but I thought I read somewhere that stainless and hot lead don't work to well together.





Toby

[docone31]

I am curious.
I am likeing what I see. The R&D is awsome!
However,
I use the Lee Mold for the .30cal, the 180gn. I also use the Lee C185-312 mold for my .303.
I size these down to .308, then wrap to diameter. I go .309 for my .30s, and .314 for my .303s.
I have found my grail. Full house loads with paper. I look no more.
However, seeing the R&D on some of the molds is Freakin' Awsome!
It will be fascinating to see what we learn.

[303Guy]

It is awesome!

Brass makes a very good mould material. Aluminium inserts would be good too.

You could make that a nose pour if you wanted.

Also, while I have not sized smooth boolits I would think they would be harder to size as there is nowehere for the lead to go but be "extruded".

Aah! Not so. The boolit simply elongates!

Reformed fired boolit.

(Believe it or not, this boolit looks good when not zoomed in!)

Mellonhead, how will you be shaping the inserts? Will you be sizing your castings?

These work for me but shaping the twist drill takes a bit of patience!




If you are going to size your castings the mold shape becomes real easy. Use a enough taper and the casting simply drops out the mold