Home-made Mould

[heathydee]

I am aware of the problems over there Beekeeper and sometimes I wonder if the site is "on the skids".
As to the mould and its manufacture , I am thinking the nose shape is too blunt and would benefit from a more rounded profile ; same size meplat though. I have a few chunks of alloy in the shed and am thinking that it might be worthwhile to document the build of the MK 3 fully in an album on my profile page . Because of the limitations on the ammount of pictures I can post on threads sooner or later I will have to delete pictures from earlier threads and I do not want to do that. I can have up to 60 pictures with captions in an album and that should be enough to document the process of making a push out mould from scratch and it will be there forever . What do you think?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Open a photobucket account (which you probably have done already. They allow you to open folders. You can then put up a link to it. The boolit shape looks good to me (for hunting anway).

[heathydee]

The boolit shape looks good to me (for hunting anway).

The problem is Mick , that the blunt form hits the start of the rifling and means the boolit has to be seated too deeply in the case , limiting powder space . It is not a problem in my two 30-30s but is in my 7.62x39 single shot and my Martini wildcat in 30-357 Magnum .

[Four Fingers of Death]

OK, that makes sense.

[barrabruce]

Heath it does sound good.

Maybe they will be a good roo load then.
Or do you think a hollow point will work ever better???

[1874Sharps]

Heathydee,

Have you tried shooting these PP boolits at a faster velocity (maybe in a different cartridge)? Sometimes better accuracy comes this way.

[heathydee]

Heathydee,

Have you tried shooting these PP boolits at a faster velocity (maybe in a different cartridge)? Sometimes better accuracy comes this way.

I have reached 2270 fps with the 140 grain PP boolit out of the first mould when fired out of my single shot Chicopee 30-30 . This rifle has a 25 inch barrel and measures .307" to the bottom of the grooves. The best group so far was a five shotter measuring 27.5 mm at 50 metres ; a whisker under 2 MOA . The rifle is short throated . I cut the chamber to suit Remington 150 grain factory ammunition ,with which it performs superbly . Three shot groups from a cold barrel are almost always well under MOA and cast boolit loads with the Lee 150 gn FP at 2250 fps or the CBE 150gn RN average under 1.5 MOA so I think better results are not far off with the lighter of the two PP boolits I have made so far.
My 94 Winchester is the later Angle Eject model and has a long throat so it better suits the longer 173 gn PP Boolit so velocities will probably top out at about 2100 fps . The goal here is 2 MOA .173 grains of soft lead arriving at that speed says "hello" with some authority and should deal with the odd feral goat or pig that may happen to wander in front of the sights.
I am wondering if I need to patch the boolits up a couple of thousandths to about the .311" mark or maybe put the moulds back in the lathe and polish them a smidgin larger . That is the next thing to try after I have exhausted the ususal possiblities of powder load , seating depth etc. All of this takes time but it is time well spent.

[heathydee]

I have been playing with the 173 gn boolit in my Winchester 30-30 and have not improved on previous results.The last test gave me two five shot groups at fifty metres of 45mm ; fed through the magazine , and 51mm ;single loaded . Velocity was 2100 fps . I will hone out the mould two thousandths or so and try a few more patched up to .311"in the next week or so and see if that improves things. If it doesn't , a Mk3 mould will be commenced .

[barrabruce]

Did you read the atricle about sizing down the patch?
Or do you want to keep with the cast ..wrap..shoot...theory
Seems good to me but I'm waiting / deciding on a mold.
The PP molds seem hexy to me at the moment.
Keep up the good work

Bruce

[heathydee]

[QUOTE=barrabruce;
Or do you want to keep with the cast ..wrap..shoot...theory


That is the plan Bruce . I want to keep things as simple and easy as possible . The 173 gn boolit I think will suit the 94 Winchester as it can be seated well out . My other 30 calibers have shorter throats and will need a more pointed boolit , hopefully with the same .200" meplat . I have started making another D bit two thousandths larger than the first one and should be able to cut a couple of cavities next week . I will match the new mould blocks to the sprue plates I have already made to ease demands on my time .

[barrabruce]

I'm playing with some 180's down and wrapping with 1/2 lenght patches .Then sizing down.
Not holding out if they will not lead the bore thou. But trying it.

Couldn't you just hone out the bore a few thou with a small flap sander??? Save making a new mould till you hit pay dirt then make one that size???

just a thought
Cheers
Bruce

[longbow]

I usually cut my push out moulds slightly small then lap to get the final size I want. If I use a full nose form rather than an ejector pin, I lap the whole cavity spending slightly more time "out" than "in" to produce a very slight taper of 0.0005" or so for easy ejection.

Just cast a slug, drill a hole in the base for a wood screw, file a flat on the slug, put some valve lapping compound on the flat, insert into the mould and lap away. I use an electric drill rotating slowly.

Another small problem I ran into was that sometimes the D bits warp when I heat treat them after milling the flat on them. I don't have a jig made up to grind to final form after heat treating which is what is recommended so I make the final version in soft form then heat treat but the D section tends to bow slightly making it cut about 0.003" large.

I took to making the D bit about 0.003" small then doing a final light lapping to finish the cavity. That workks well enough.

Longbow

[heathydee]

I usually cut my push out moulds slightly small then lap to get the final size I want. If I use a full nose form rather than an ejector pin, I lap the whole cavity spending slightly more time "out" than "in" to produce a very slight taper of 0.0005" or so for easy ejection.

Just cast a slug, drill a hole in the base for a wood screw, file a flat on the slug, put some valve lapping compound on the flat, insert into the mould and lap away. I use an electric drill rotating slowly.

Another small problem I ran into was that sometimes the D bits warp when I heat treat them after milling the flat on them. I don't have a jig made up to grind to final form after heat treating which is what is recommended so I make the final version in soft form then heat treat but the D section tends to bow slightly making it cut about 0.003" large.

I took to making the D bit about 0.003" small then doing a final light lapping to finish the cavity. That workks well enough.

Longbow

It is always easier to remove metal than put it back on isn't it . I have not yet had a problem with D bits warping Longbow but I agree polishing or honing the last couple of thousandths out of the cavity is the way to go and gives a better surface finish . Another reason for the new D bit is to make a more boolity looking boolit . The current one has to be seated too deep in the case , especially in the 7.62x69 ,limiting powder capacity , and a less abrupt profile might give enhanced downrange ballistics . I just want to keep that .200" meplat for teminal performance on live game.
Thanks for your input.
Heath

[303Guy]

Or do you want to keep with the cast ..wrap..shoot...theory
That is the plan Bruce .

Well, just a thought. To get boolits to cast out consistently is in itself a mission. If one simplifies the casting process the consistency goes down. But, adding a sizer die to the process should more than compensate. i.e. it may well be simpler to size then patch. Then the mold itself can be designed for quicker (and simpler) operation. Sizing pre-patching makes patching simpler as the boolit diameter is more uniform over its length. Mold design and manufacture becomes simpler too.

Of course, a suitably designed press makes the whole process get even simpler.

[heathydee]

I had one more attempt with the 173 gn boolit in the Winchester 30-30. I loaded ten rounds up with 32 grains of AR2208(Varget) , filling up the empty space left in the case with 0.7cc of shotshell buffer to provide 100 percent loading density and thus hopefully , prevent setback under recoil in the Winchester's tubular magazine . The first fouling shot over the chronograph resulted in a velocity of 2150 fps which , as far as I am concerned , is as close to a maximum load as I am going to get .The next nine into the target at 50 meters gave a nice round group of 40mm or just under 1.6". Given that the boolit is "fingernail scratching" soft I am vaguely pleased with the result . I have started work on a Mk3 mould which will throw a boolit a couple of thousandths larger in diameter and with a more tapered ogive to try and improve accuracy . I want to achieve a patched diameter of around the .311" mark . The picture of the last group is in the album on my personal page.

[heathydee]

I have finished the Mk3 mould and preliminary results are encouraging . Reasonable accuracy at 2250 fps has been achieved with 152 grain boolits cast out of straight wheel-weights and air cooled. They drop from the mould measuring .302" and are patched up to .310" with wet note-paper . Once dry the twisted tails are cut off with a small pair of wire-cutters and the boolits are hand lubed with Lee Liquid Alox.
Because of poor venting compared to a conventional split mould , a different technique has been used to get good fill-out. The sprue hole is 5/32" diameter and by tilting the mould as the pour is begun and returning it to the vertical position as the cavity fills , most of the trapped air comes out of the sprue hole. Despite this , a reject rate of around 15% leaves a lot of room for improvement. Some pictures and descriptions are in an album entitled "Mk3 Boolit Mould" on my personal page.

[longbow]

heathydee:

I ladle pour so there may be some differences there but I found a long time ago that tilting the mould helps as you have discovered, the larger sprue hole helps as well. I will have to measure mine as I have forgotten what size I made them but they are bigger than standard Lyman or RCBS that I have.

Another trick I use is to pour tangentially so the lead swirls down the sprue hold. I also cast hot so I get frosty boolits, that helps as well and once lead and mould are up to temp. I get very few rejects.

Latley I have been shooting smooth two diameter nose bore rider boolits of a couple thou over groove diameter on the larger body. I have been outside lubricating these and so far it has been quite successful.

Obviously these are not paper patched but the mould is exactly the same style of push out mould as for my PP boolits.

Longbow

[heathydee]

Thanks for the tips Longbow . I agree that hotter will be better . I am having trouble keeping the mould up to temperature which is probably because of its mass , and the fact that one 150 grain boolit every 40 seconds or so is not going to make up for the heat lost over that time . What I have been doing is pouring the remainder of my spoonful of lead over the side of the mould once the cavity is full in an attempt to keep its temperature up . Other ideas include machining the bottom of the mould cylindrical to reduce its surface area/mass ratio or attaching a heat shield to the handle . However the mould is functional as is , and more practice in the pouring techniques discussed should result in a reduction in the amount of rejects.

[barrabruce]

I.I.I.I. like it verly much...I I I I think its grand!!!
A few Question Heath.
Whats the sponge on the box for?
It seems your bullet profiles down towards the nose as the paper didn't engrave. That right??
Thanks for the idea of a small charge to lodge the bullet in the rifling.
Me-um test him out for mine now.

Maybe a bit less patch length may be get them of the bullet easier/more consistant.
Have you tried with not lube at all??
My barrell get hot fast but no lead issue if I just grease the nose section.


Like the profile better.

Have you tried 18 grs of 2207?
One of my attempts grouped well with it.

My half patched 180's seems to be a mostly a failure at this stage. One more attemp at it.

Keep up the good work.

Interested in the next update

Bruce

[longbow]

heathydee:

Why only one boolit every 40 seconds?

I cast as fast as with a split mould and actually since with most of my pushout moulds the boolits almost fall out on their own (some do) I can cast about as fast with the single cavity as with a split double cavity mould where I usually have to tap the handle hinge to release the boolits.

Also, I cast 100 grain boolits in the same mould I normally cast 180 gr. in with no problems ~ well, other than they didn't shoot well. Too short I think so too much jump thropugh the throat.I have more patched that I will try again though.

I normally make my moulds from 1 1/2" round bar which seems to work well for me for boolits from .30 cal to 12 ga. slugs. The 12 ga. slugs do heat up a mould fast though!

What size material are you using? I normally use steel and often just plain 'ol cold rolled but have also used bronze which works well and is easy to machine. Brass or aluminum should work well too and when I bought material last time I wanted aluminum but noone locally had any.

I have been planning a multi cavity pushout mould but haven't got to it yet. One day.

Longbow