45acp with 255gr boolit

[ChuckS1]

Chucks1;
This image is too small to read. I have it on my hard drive so it's not a problem for me. However, it IS a problem for those who don't have it.

If you cannot send a larger file (I don't want to tramp all over your post) let me know and I will send a larger image. Keith's info is GOOD!

Dale53

Yeah, saw that. Deleted it and just quoted Elmer.

[Dale53]

ChuckS1;
Here is the image:



Dale53

[dogbert41]

The pictures have since been removed, but there was this article:

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/CTT0907.html

I think the heavy loads made them nervous and they wanted to hide the article...

[geargnasher]

I've done the 454190 thing in the 1911, kept running into seating issues. The base needs to be about .020" below where the case begins to thicken toward the case head, and seating them as far out as possible still put a bulge ring in the middle of the case. I've tried the 452664 and it fits the case and gun perfectly, but does have some feeding issues.

Other issues: One needs a heavier recoil spring for all but the most "powder puff" charges behind these heavyweights, and accuracy was terrible with both above boolits when pushed even slightly hard.

454190, 5.0 gr. Universal Clays 1.250" OAL
454190, 4.3 gr. Titegroup 1.250"
W-W and TZZ brass worked best (thin walls). These loads gave best accuracy in 3" Kimber. You can go almost a grain hotter for both, but that is pushing it even with an 18lb spring.

Gear

[The Virginian]

Methinks Keith was a bit on the hot side for 1911s and 1917s so work your load up carefully.

[Dale53]

Methinks Keith was a bit on the hot side for 1911s and 1917s so work your load up carefully.

I would like very much to SECOND this notion. First of all, Keith didn't hot rod the 1911 with heavy bullets. His loads were for the Auto Rim cases so that they would NOT be put in 1911's. In addition, 2400 is reportedly faster burning than in Keith's time. The 2400 loads should certainly be reduced.

In later years it was discovered that 1917's were not heat treated and there HAVE been some cylinder failures in the old guns. The modern S&W 25's and 625's are considerably stronger than the early Smiths and Colts.

I will be using some Lyman 454424 cast bullets in my 625's but I am NOT going to be trying to make a .45 Magnum out of my 625's. A 250-260 gr Keith style bullet at 900 fps is all I will be asking of my 625's and that level will give me adequate power for self defense or short range deer hunting. My 625's will handle that load forever without damage.

Dale53

[gray wolf]

I no this is an old thread but I would like to ask a question. A couple of times I noticed reference to a square bottom firing pin stop for the 45 ACP- It was to my understanding that the original patent called for the flat bottom firring pin stop to have a slight bevel on the leading edge. Also that this has been found to give the feeling of less recoil and less muzzle jump. This seems to come about because the coming out of lock up or the rearward motion of the slide is slightly delayed. I have also been told that while on horse back this arrangement was a little hard to work the slide. That prompted the long rounded edge on the firring pin stop that is so popular today. Also that many people are going back to the square bottom stop because of the reasons mentioned above.
Would someone care to comment on this. As to true or false?
Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I found this point interesting.

Thank you men

GW.

[Catshooter]

I use 4.7 grains of Universal Clays behind my 255 grainers. Runs about 800 fps out of short barrels, close to 900 out of five inchers.


Cat

[Dale53]

Speer's #14 Reloading Manual has data for the .45 Auto rim and their swaged 255 gr bullets.

FWIW
Dale53

[Bullshop Junior]

Speer's #14 Reloading Manual has data for the .45 Auto rim and their swaged 255 gr bullets.

FWIW
Dale53

Oh Boy, Here we go again!

[Dale53]

BS Junior;
No, the Speer #14 is the current manual and there should be NO controversy regarding the data therein.

Dale53

[Ford SD]

a comment on heavy loads 250g plus in the 45acp called pin loads

did a bit of this 10 plus years ago don't rember the data
but was comp 45acp with 24 lb spring
the one thing i rember was working up loads and having pot belly brass show up when shooting over my crony

what we did at that point was sort brass and any head stamp that started to belly out did not get used
at that time it was rp brass

win was the best so we sorted brass and used win brass only
but any of the data you use ---- USE WITH CAUTION
and that is why if i could find that data i would be relunctant to post it it was hot

I noticed one poster using a 18 lb spring and square bottom firing pin stop
and having no problems

there are 10 million people out there that know more than me about 1911 but what i know is every part in a 1911 and the amount of wear / springs recoil and hammer spring / fit up ie (square bottom firing pin stop) barrel all make a differance to the operation / function

I no this is an old thread but I would like to ask a question. A couple of times I noticed reference to a square bottom firing pin stop for the 45 ACP- It was to my understanding that the original patent called for the flat bottom firring pin stop to have a slight bevel on the leading edge. Also that this has been found to give the feeling of less recoil and less muzzle jump. This seems to come about because the coming out of lock up or the rearward motion of the slide is slightly delayed. I have also been told that while on horse back this arrangement was a little hard to work the slide. That prompted the long rounded edge on the firring pin stop that is so popular today. Also that many people are going back to the square bottom stop because of the reasons mentioned above.
Would someone care to comment on this. As to true or false?
Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I found this point interesting.

Thank you men

GW.

how about a expert / gunsmith give us a lesson on the square bottom firing pin stop and how it affects function

my para 1911 45acp clone has a rounded firing pin stop, 20lb wolf recoil spring ,match barrel and shoots 200g lead min load data from the win book for 231/ wst/ but i also have a heavy/ strong grip (200g at 850+- fps) practice ammo and only starts to hickup after 300 plus rounds ( dirty- wax&powder and lube combining) to cause slowing down FTF slide closing, worse in the cold as you could expect
What am i doing wrong!!!
ps first post but have been looking for about the last 6 months lots of info here

[bushwaker]

i'm no expert but i can tell the difference in felt recoil. i own 13 1911's and have done this mod on all of them 45acp and 10mm.

[gray wolf]

I think I am correct on what I said about the square bottom on the pin stop.
I may have the details a little fuzzy. But I believe the original had a square bottom with a small radius on the leading edge.
There was about 20 pages on the 1911 forum about year ago and what I said was the conclusion of the ("experts over there") Chime in guy's.

GW.

[Bullshop Junior]

I think if you want to shoot boolits that heavy you should get a 45 Colt.

[Bullshop Junior]

BS Junior;
No, the Speer #14 is the current manual and there should be NO controversy regarding the data therein.

Dale53

I was kidding.

[Bass Ackward]

45 Colt? Like this? The correct designation is 45AR Colt

Well, it's just is in short cases.

Wanna see my 454 imitation?

[Cannoneer]

I've used both the LEE 250 gr RNFP and the LYMAN Cowboy 250 gr RNFP bullets cast from range scrap and 5.5 to 6.0 grains of unique as well as 4.0 grains of HP38 out of both my Springfield M1911A1 and my S&W 625 and 1917 Colt New Service.

Out of the revolvers I shot using full moon clips and the same loads in .45 AR cases.

In the M1911A1 I added a shock buff and a new recoil spring guide with a spring loaded plunger that acts like a shock absorber.

These loads shot well in all my handguns and the added parts in the 1911 softened up felt recoil in all loads.

[35remington]

Bass, you just know somebody had to bite, so I will.

What's the bullet and load particulars, and seating depth? I cast 14 different bullet designs in 45 pistol and have used all in the Auto Rim, but I cannot say despite their great variety that any is absolutely optimal for the Auto Rim revolver.

What I'd like to have is:

Thick forward band or long bearing surface well forward to grab rifling immediately and reduce skidding. A heavier bullet has more potential bearing surface but more inertia which increasing skidding, so for me it's helpful if a lot of that weight is in bearing surface.

Unfortunately, a lot of the heavy long bearing surface bullets seat deeply in the case, increasing jump and pressures.

Yet I'd also like shallow bullet seating to lower pressures and increase case capacity. Hard to reconcile with a long bearing surface.

So the perfect bullet in one area is usually less than optimal in another.

What have you got there?

[Bass Ackward]

Bass, you just know somebody had to bite, so I will.

What's the bullet and load particulars, and seating depth? I cast 14 different bullet designs in 45 pistol and have used all in the Auto Rim, but I cannot say despite their great variety that any is absolutely optimal for the Auto Rim revolver.

What I'd like to have is:

Thick forward band or long bearing surface well forward to grab rifling immediately and reduce skidding. A heavier bullet has more potential bearing surface but more inertia which increasing skidding, so for me it's helpful if a lot of that weight is in bearing surface.

Unfortunately, a lot of the heavy long bearing surface bullets seat deeply in the case, increasing jump and pressures.

Yet I'd also like shallow bullet seating to lower pressures and increase case capacity. Hard to reconcile with a long bearing surface.

So the perfect bullet in one area is usually less than optimal in another.

What have you got there?

I figured that you have to hang the lead outside the case and that leaves an olgival design as the only option.

That is an LBT, 260 grain LFN that he makes for automatics (no crimp groove) and I just seat it at the back of the first grease groove for the revolver. And cutting down the jump is EXACTLY why I do it more than for the extra power. This is a GC design so it allows me to shoot softer in the 4"er.

That makes OAL: 1.375 giving you 19 grains of usable case capacity compared to 12 grains of case capacity when I seat it to 1.21.

The seating in the case with the 1.375 OAL is .196 and solid as a rock. I can't rotate the slug in the case.

I was joking about the Colt as it would have 27 grains of case capacity with this at a normal OAL. But ..... it is virtually the same as a standard Schofield (1 .43) at 20 grains.

Powder ranges at this OAL range from Unique down to AA#7 depending on barrel length with the compromises (I have 4", 5", 6 1/2") between Power Pistol, HS-6, and AA#5 depending on just how fast I want it to go.

I have had the mold for a day or two and wanted to try it and then improve the design (basically shorten the unsupported nose weight and meplat using the weight to widen the front band holding the weight at 260) but I haven't seen the need at this point in case I get an automatic again someday. (always fed nice)

This is stable even as low as 750 fps holding 4" to 5" @ 100 yards reliably from the 4". Below that level and it will start to elongate the holes. The load in those pictured is 7.8 grains of Unique at 900 fps from the 4" at @ 20.5k according to Quickload. It likes that load.