.351 Winchester S.L - Model 1907

[jbunny]

IIRC it was used in WW1 in an aircraft. they had large cappacity mags
the gunner in the back seat would shoot at other aircraft and targets on the ground.
i rebuilt 2 of these a few years ago. gun parts corp still has parts for these. the
buffer washer should be changed on these old guns as they wear out. there is quite a
trick puting that spring back in after u change the buffer washer. hehehe.
jb

[levallois]

Glad to see this website. I've got two of these rifles - one is being turned into a 1930s Lebman replica 1907 as we speak (barrel comp and thompson forearm).

I'm hooked and need to reload so this site is a great find for me.

I'd like to address how popular these were in the "old days." There is a guy on the www, "351 winchester" is his moniker, that could do better than I but here goes.

When I was looking for info. about the 1907, it seemed like everything I read had something about how both lawmen and law-breakers used the rifle before WWII but with few details. So just how popular was the 1907? The following is what I have see thus far about who used this rifle for good or evil in the 1930s:

Dillinger gang - 2 found at the Congress Hotel and 1 in JD's car when they arrested him in Tucson
- Eddie Green - member of the gang - found a 1907 in his apartment after a shootout in St. Paul
- Little Bohemia Lodge - a 1907 was left behind when the gang scattered during the shootout
- Homer van Meter - member of the gang - the 1907 was his favorite - apparently with a Thompson-like forearm and Cutts compensator along with at least a 10-round mag

Baby Face Nelson - used one to kill two G-men when he was mortally wounded in 1934 - apparently there is mounting evidence that Baby Face's Thompson jammed and he then picked up a Lebman-modified 1907 to kill the two Gmen on the night he was mortally wounded.

Russell Gibson - member of Karpis/Barker gang killed by a 1907 used by Doc White. At least one of the six .351 rounds fired punched through his bullet proof vest.

Alvin Karpis - arrested by G-man named Hurt who was carring a 1907

Alva Hunt/Hugh Gant gang - had a 1907 when they were captured in Florida in 1938

Bonnie and Clyde left a 1907 behind after a shootout (I'm still working on the details of this one). Also Clyde apparently gave Ray Hamilton two 1907s as parting gifts when they split up.

Harvey Bailey - member of Machine Gun Kelly's gang - captured holding 1907 while asleep on a porch in Texas.

Fred Burke - supposedly responsible for St Valentine's Day Massacre and Al Capone associate - a 1907 was found in his gun cache when police raided his bungalow in 1929. These guns were though to have been used in the massacre! So it's possible a 1907 was used in the most infamous mass murder during the gangster era!!

Fred (and Ma) Barker might have been shot with one - Doc White had his 351 at the shootout.

The good guys liked them too with members of the following organizations:

Texas Rangers - George Chapman carried one
Border Patrol - Charles Askins carried one
FBI - Walter Walsh and Doc White each carried one



The 1907 was at least as popular as the TSMG, so why don't we here about these guns today? Also, by just about every account out there, a 1907 was NOT present at the ambush of Bonnie and Clyde.

As several people have put it, this was the original urban carbine.

John

[omygosh]

Sprue
Thank you for the welcome...For some reason this 351 has become one of my favorite in my collection since I inherited it. Had it about 4 months and it came with 4 clips and 8 boolits that had the trigger pulled on them and were duds (probable due to their age)
I really knew nothing about this gun until I started researching it and I was very suprised at the history of the gun.
The history behind this gun made me want to shoot it all the more so I seached the internet for information as to what is needed to reload the duds and had a friend that reloads a lot help me out. he did get them reloaded and I ordered brass and bullets which arrived a month or so ago.
I did obtain pieces from a Lee Loader yesterday from an old mom and pop type gun shop. All they had was the priming chamber,the bullet seater and the body die for resizing. I had all the other parts that will work from my 30.06 Lee Loader set.
Bought some powder today (imr 4227)and as soon as my scale comes in I think I am ready to reload these myself.
The main thing I am after is I want my grandson to have the know how and knowledge to keep the gun going when I pass it on to him.
I will try and get some pictures post of the old beast soon and post them so you can see what kind of shape the gun is in but most people are suprised to see the condition she is in.

[firefly1957]

I have my grandfather's Winchester Model 1907 and have been reloading for it for about 20 years. Two deer have been taken during this time I have not recovered a single case fired while hunting and lose some no matter how careful when target shooting.
Last deer season I put .351 cartridges in a box next to some .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) and was surprised by how close they where the only difference was the missing semi rim of the .351.
After some research I trimmed some 223 cases to the length of a 351 primed them and run them in gun primers fired so I loaded a few with speer 160 half jacket bullets SWAGED TO .351 diameter they functioned fine in my rifle. I do not use heavy loads in these but just enough to eject and feed reliably, it seems that they actually head space more on ejector then case mouth as I cut a few short to test and they did work fine. I have used both swaged cast and jacketed .357 bullets (@.351 diameter) with good accuracy and feeding . I plan to use this gun and trimmed down .223 cases for pest control now that I have easy to make cases. I have .351 RCBS dies but have used 38/357 mag to load. I use lee factory crimp die to hold bullet firmly in place as no one puts crimp groove in the right place on their bullets for the 351 which is only .2 inches in case. I have loaded and fired some of these cases 11 times with no problems but remember the case volume is not the same as .351 so those loads may be too hot at maximum loads.
For deer hunting I use a Sierra 170 gr. JHC SWAGED TO .351 and 351 cases this bullet is very destructive and when I use the remaining 40 I have loaded (loaded 100 in 1995) I will switch to a non hollow point. Above hunting load shoots 1 inch 50 yd groups!

[TCLouis]

Just think how this would have performed for our GI's if they had it to use rather than the 30 Carbine round. I would bet some folks would be alive today that aren't because of the effectiveness of the 30 Cal. Carbine.

Besides then it would be readily available today for us to play with.

[Sprue]

I have my grandfather's Winchester Model 1907 and have been reloading for it for about 20 years. Two deer have been taken during this time I have not recovered a single case fired while hunting and lose some no matter how careful when target shooting.
Last deer season I put .351 cartridges in a box next to some .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) and was surprised by how close they where the only difference was the missing semi rim of the .351.
After some research I trimmed some 223 cases to the length of a 351 primed them and run them in gun primers fired so I loaded a few with speer 160 half jacket bullets SWAGED TO .351 diameter they functioned fine in my rifle. I do not use heavy loads in these but just enough to eject and feed reliably, it seems that they actually head space more on ejector then case mouth as I cut a few short to test and they did work fine. I have used both swaged cast and jacketed .357 bullets (@.351 diameter) with good accuracy and feeding . I plan to use this gun and trimmed down .223 cases for pest control now that I have easy to make cases. I have .351 RCBS dies but have used 38/357 mag to load. I use lee factory crimp die to hold bullet firmly in place as no one puts crimp groove in the right place on their bullets for the 351 which is only .2 inches in case. I have loaded and fired some of these cases 11 times with no problems but remember the case volume is not the same as .351 so those loads may be too hot at maximum loads.
For deer hunting I use a Sierra 170 gr. JHC SWAGED TO .351 and 351 cases this bullet is very destructive and when I use the remaining 40 I have loaded (loaded 100 in 1995) I will switch to a non hollow point. Above hunting load shoots 1 inch 50 yd groups!

Thanks for your contribution .... & Welcome to the Forum.

Roger

[CC Ryder]

firefly1957,
I am interested in swaging some bullets to 351. I've been loading for about 50 years but have never done anything like swaging. I have hulls, dies, etc. but bullets are hard to come by.
What equipment is needed for swaging? Is the 351 size available in a swager??

[Sprue]

Good question CC..... I'm all ears. Did you PM him? That way when he logs on the next time he will get a popup.

[M4Sherman]

It is a pretty neat rifle and I would love to have one but they are way out of my price range But anyway I have about 195rnds of the ammo (50 of which are forsale on this forum) but no use for it until I find the rifle.

[beagle]

They really aren't that overpriced. Seems like I gave $300 for mine and a box of ammo at a gun show several years back. The Deluxe checkered stock models get pricey but most are old prison and LE guns and have been rode hard and put away wet./beagle

[M4Sherman]

Well My most expensive gun is my 1894 Winchester and it cost about $400, I almost cried until I took it shooting.

[Czech_too]

I thought this might be of interest due to slightly different dimensions show from previous posts. That could be due to different mfg. though.

[jbunny]

for the people still shooting these relics, gun parts corp has some parts for these.
they are a straight blow back design and the bufferwasher on the back of the rod should
probly be changed or looked at very carefuly. it,s quite a trick puting that long spring back in. heheghe.

[levallois]

Sprue - that's a beautiful 1907 !!

Here are my two - a standard with factory deluxe wood and a Lebman replica like those used by the Dillinger gang with a compensator, 10-round mag, aluminum forearm, and TSMG grip.

[Shooter]

For anyone with a 1910 .401SL.
Brass can be fire-formed from 7.62X39 case.
They can be reloaded with .41 Mag. Dies/

[looseprojectile]

When reading this thread I remembered that I have some of that ammo.
When I did a search I found that One is .351 Win. The other fourteen are
35 SLR cartridges and are a whole lot shorter than .351 Win.
What the heck rifle shoots 35 SLR ammo? Just looking at them the cases appear to be about the length of 38 special cases. The bullets seem to be the same in both rounds. Seems to me that the shorter rounds would be kind of puny.

Life is good

[levallois]

The 35 slr was chambered in the 1905 Winchester semi-auto. The rifle was basically a slightly smaller version of the 1907. And, yes, the round was puny which is why Winchester came up with the .351. People who own 1905s are always on the look out for ammo so you might post them on Gunbroker or the like?

John

[Sprue]

Sure is a lot of good info being posted here.

Keep it up guys !

Heres a mould I got a few months back from a board member here

[M4Sherman]

Almost had one on GB that had been scoped but I was out bidded in the last 30 ahh well I will keep looking.

[Sprue]

Almost had one on GB that had been scoped but I was out bidded in the last 30 ahh well I will keep looking.

What did it go for ?