round ball question

[Rio Grande]

I'm wanting to load round balls in my 20 gage, smoothbore, which has a choke dia. of .598
and I'm getting info from magazines and the 'net that are contradictory
So...to the experienced folks here I ask.....
Can I use a ball of .598 w/ the wad, which would make the total diameter of wad/ball bigger than .598 (one source says the choke will simply cut the wad in two at the muzzle, while the ball goes on it's way)....OR make sure the combined wad/ball dia. is .598 or less???
Or do I just have to cut the wad....?
I'm not loading anything until I know.

[longbow]

Generally I think it is accepted practice to have a fit of bore size to maybe 0.005" max. over ~ and that is for the tightest constriction. Opinions vary a little and some people go tighter.

Missionary5155 has done a lot of round ball shooting and recommends no more than 0.003" over bore size (tightest constriction) with whatever combination of ball and shotcup you use. That is a good place to start.

My experience indicates that a combination much oversize does shear the wad petals and, at least for me, results in terrible acurracy. So while it may be safe to shoot, it is unlikely it will shoot well. I have done best in 12 ga. with an undersize ball in a shotcup with proper fit and with bore size balls (for cylinder bore)

A combination that is at or very slightly over your choke diameter will likely give best results.

If you have or can get a 0.598" or even 0.600" (.62 cal smoothbore mould) you can cut the wad down or use donut wads to center the ball. Otherwise look for a smaller mould that will give the ball/wad fit to choke of about 0.003" over.

Longbow

[lifeon2]

the oldest book I have is a third edition lyman it has round ball loads for 12 but not 20 maybe someone has a second or first they could check?

[DLCTEX]

My third edition lists a WW 20 ga.compression formed plastic case using a .575 ball in a WAA 20 wad and a 28 ga.1/2" fiber wad under the ball. Doesn't say anything about what choke, so I guess it would be OK with a full choke. It also lists a load with WAA20 wad and a Lyman 540619 boolit and another with a 540522 boolit. It also lists loads for Federal and Remington cases if you are interested.

[masscaster]

That's a .600 rb, and I actually have the mould ordered. Watch for me in the Vendor section in the next few days if your interested in trying it. Will have sample packs for orders as well.
Jeff @ Forefather's Casting

[diehard]

I had intended to use a .570" RB in a WAA shot cup, and even bought the mold. However the WAA20 wads I've measured average .035" per petal, which loaded with the ball comes to .640"! Unacceptable, especially since I slugged my bore and my gun's choke is exactly .600". This means that a .530" RB is needed, or much thinner wad petals!.

[Rio Grande]

I had intended to use a .570" RB in a WAA shot cup, and even bought the mold. However the WAA20 wads I've measured average .035" per petal, which loaded with the ball comes to .640"! Unacceptable, especially since I slugged my bore and my gun's choke is exactly .600". This means that a .530" RB is needed, or much thinner wad petals!.

Some of the wads I have on hand also have ribs on the inside, which make things even worse. I don't have the data on hand here, but I think I figured w/ the non-ribbed wads I need about a .562 dia. ball.
It's very tempting to chop off the choke! then I'd have a .615 bore dia. which would no doubt simplify things and increase accuracy overall.

[hamour]

Taking a different aproach, some of the guys on a muzzle loading forum have taken to jug chokeing
their smooth bores. This allows any type pattern you want from skeet to xtra turkey full and allows the use of roundballs for big game hunting with the front stuffer.

I would think it would solve your problems as well, get a jug choked bbl and it will be like loading for a cylinder bored one.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php?

[klcarroll]

@ hamour;

While I am waiting for The Muzzleloading forum to approve my registration, could you give a brief description of just exactly what "Jug Choking" is??

Thanks!

Kent

[lifeon2]

Wow cant beleive I missed a whole page in the 3rd edition

ok hope this helps (assuming your useing a fold crimp)

Federal hunting plastic cases
federal pushin cushion #20S1
1 28 gauge butler 1/2" fiber under ball
.575 ball
win 209 primer
sr4756 26 grains fps 1508, pressure 7800
sr4756 27 grains fps 1566, pressure 8300
Hi Skor 800x 25 grains fps 1650, pressure 9320

[hamour]

@ hamour;

While I am waiting for The Muzzleloading forum to approve my registration, could you give a brief description of just exactly what "Jug Choking" is??

Thanks!

Kent

Jug choking is a method of hollowing out an area in the barrel just short of the muzzle. This hollow area allows the shot to expand outward, then be forced back towards the center of the bore. Thus momentum causes the shot stream to be compressed as it exits the bore.
Kind of a reversed choke.
The depth of the hollowed out area determines the choke. Deeper hollowed out area equals tighter choke. Momentum of the shot stream coming back together is the choking method.
I think the Russians invented it to get higher scores in international skeet shooting events.

The muzzleloaders like it because it allows normal cylinder bore components to be loaded and maintain a traditional look, while allowing extremely tight patterns.

Some of the guys have reported good results with shooting roundballs out of such an arangement.

[Cheshire Dave]

I had intended to use a .570" RB in a WAA shot cup, and even bought the mold. However the WAA20 wads I've measured average .035" per petal, which loaded with the ball comes to .640"! Unacceptable, especially since I slugged my bore and my gun's choke is exactly .600". This means that a .530" RB is needed, or much thinner wad petals!.

I have a .54 muzzle loader and have a mould for .535 rb's and might have some .530 around somewhere. PM me if you want a few to try. I just got a Savage model 24 in .222 over 20 ga. and want to try some rb loads myself. Let us hear how they work out. I thought I might try a .535 with a patch to bring up the dia. inside a shot cup, I think Longbow has had good luck with that in a 12 ga.

[masscaster]

Hi folks,
We've got plenty of .530 & .535 RB here at Forefather's.
Check our Sponsor Site, we're always willing to give a break on tryout loads/projectiles.
Jeff @ Forefather's

[longbow]

Another option you might try is to use doughnut wads or use a cut off cupped gas seal under a ball that will fit through the choke. The doughnut wad or inverted cup will keep the ball centered.

You could load this over a cushion leg with petals cut off or over hard card wads.

I haven't tried it myself yet but have read that it works well and can't see any reason it wouldn't work. The reports I have read say accuracy can be quite good especially if you use a doughnut wad or cup both under and on top of the ball.

The wads or cups keep the ball centered and it can be right to choke diameter with no problems. Allows a little larger ball with more weight.

Shotman was getting good results with a cupped wad to center ball in his 12 ga.

I am going to give it a try with my 0.690" and 0.715" balls.

And, yes, I cloth patched 0.662" balls into standard shotcups because there was too much rattle room but that was through cylinder bore. I got pretty good accuracy this way with groups in the 4" range at 50 yards. Should work with a choke if if you make sure the combination is at or not much more than choke diameter.

Longbow

[shotman]

You dont want any shot cup type wad that can compress. you will do better with a old fiber wads. Take a 1/2 drill or a counter sink and put a dimple in the wad. Cut the shell off to about 2in long and set ball on wad and drip some wax to hold ball in. Bee wax is best more sticky. rick

[yondering]

Some of the wads I have on hand also have ribs on the inside, which make things even worse. I don't have the data on hand here, but I think I figured w/ the non-ribbed wads I need about a .562 dia. ball.
It's very tempting to chop off the choke! then I'd have a .615 bore dia. which would no doubt simplify things and increase accuracy overall.

Another option is to size down your round balls. They aren't technically a round ball after sizing, but still work very well. You can make a simple sizer die from a large nut; ream the inside to a little smaller than you need, and polish to the correct dia.