.45 ACP 200gr SWC load?

[VHinch]

5.2 Red Dot with the same Lee HG pattern 200 SWC mentioned above loaded to 1.250" gets the following velocities from a 5 inch 1911:
956
971
962
965
970

This looks like exactly where I want to be. As I work up, this one is in the back of my mind.

Slightly shifting gears, anyone have thoughts on what I'm working toward here?

My goal here is to create a do all load for .45. If it works, this would be what I practice, train, and carry with, which is why I used the example of the Cooper load as a baseline. I shoot approximately 12k rounds a year, most of it in .45, and probably 8-9k of it being my own reloads, so having one load has some appeal to me.

If it works in both accuracy and performance testing, seems like having one go to load would certainly have it's merits.

[jsizemore]

Have you chrono'd this load by chance?

Chrono'd it this morning. First clip avg. velocity 835.6. Second was 862.
This is mixed headstamp brass that's been fired many times in this gun over the past 12 years. All powder dropped from a Harrell's powder measure. Practiced with my digital scale and found I got the most consistent powder drop with a double tap at the top of the stroke. extreme spread was about 39 fps in each clip and that was reflected in the accuracy of powder measure to meter Promo (Red Dot direct substitute. Meters better then Red Dot).Still less then 5% variation in exterme velocity and accurate to minute of 10" gong at 100 yards.
I used to use AA#5 but I would have numerous FTF after 50 rounds because of the combo of carbon, unburned powder and lube buildup.
I've been using Lars45's BAC and there has been absolutely NO leading and the barrel shines even around the unburned AA#5 powder.
Hope this helps.

[jsizemore]

I should have mentioned that I'm using the saeco #068 4c mold with straight WW.

[35remington]

jsize, if I'm reading you correctly this latest load of 4.5 grains used Promo rather than Red Dot, correct?

How do you like the Promo? I've been very tempted to get some for high volume 45 ACP shooting, but have yet to go there. The low price is attractive.

VHinch, I always thought a 200 SWC of good shape would be a better all around load than ball assuming it fed 100 percent. The Lee HG 68 copy I used in my velocity results has a meplat that's a little too small in my opinion, and jsizemore's Saeco 68 copy has a wider meplat that I think would add more smack to the load. Still and all, I shoot a lot of this Lee bullet, but I'm switching to another HG 68 copy more faithful to the original design.

On average, since I get better accuracy with the 68 pattern SWC than ball and my castboolits group buy HG 68 six cavity mould throws a better SWC than Lee's I am strongly tempted to use this Red Dot/HG pattern 200 SWC load as an all around load myself.

Oftentimes, on a trip back from the range a couple of the magazines are loaded with some leftover group buy HG SWC's "just in case" that are the last 14 or so rounds left from my day's shoot.

One advantage to using this SWC/Red Dot combination for your do it all load that I have not seen mentioned very often is a more certain assessment of their feed reliability.

I have never read (not saying it doesn't ever happen; just that it likely doesn't happen often enough) where a fellow has shot, say, two or five or seven thousand JHP's that he has settled on as a defense load, whether that be factory loaded HST, Hydra-Shok, Ranger or some store bought hollowpoint like Gold Dots or XTP's.

Almost nobody can afford that amount of shooting. Certainly not with the near 50 cent to one dollar a shot factory loads, nor with store bought hollowpoints like Gold Dot or XTP's that are now runnning near 30 bucks a hundred. With a home cast SWC of good shape like the HG 68 pattern an ordinary fellow can easily shoot thousands of them without breaking the bank, and he has a more statistically valid assessment of exactly how reliable they are. Most fellows just shoot 50 to 100 handloaded hollowpoints before proclaiming them to be reliable, or even, God forbid, only a 20 pack of the high dollar factory loaded defense ammo before deciding that's "good enough."

Not me. Shooting only a few rounds in reliability assessment makes me nervous. If I want to KNOW how reliable a bullet design is, the only way to do so is to shoot a lot of it. Given your SWC's inherent accuracy and presence of a good meplat, along with certain penetration combined with enough shooting use to absolutely know its reliability at low cost, you certainly won't get a dissenting opinion from me about your decision to go with this bullet and load.

[VHinch]

How do you like the Promo? I've been very tempted to get some for high volume 45 ACP shooting, but have yet to go there. The low price is attractive.

I've been working with it for a while now, and I like it a lot. As mentioned, the price is great, but in addition to that a lot of guys don't seem to know what it is so it doesn't jump on the shelf when panic hits. I can always find Promo locally, and plenty of it.

Not me. Shooting only a few rounds in reliability assessment makes me nervous. If I want to KNOW how reliable a bullet design is, the only way to do so is to shoot a lot of it.

Agreed. I won't carry a round until it's seen at minimum 250 rounds through the gun it's going in, and I really prefer that number to be 500. Then of course it's necessary to practice regularly with your carry load, and once you spread all that over a couple of guns you may carry, it can be a pretty hefty figure. Even more so than the cost of all this can be the hassle. Some guns like certain loads better than another, so now you're stocking quantities of multiple premium rounds and loading training rounds to duplicate those loads. In the quantities I shoot, this is all a huge headache, and working up one load to do it all starts making a lot of sense.

[jsizemore]

The reason I decided to try Promo was to load defense/hunting loads for shotgun. I started out with RedDot and liked how clean it burned in the shotguns. The skeet crowd shoots volume and swear by Rio primers and Promo powder. So I decided to give them a try and I can see why they like them. The Promo meters better then RedDot in my powder measures and sells for about $12.50/lb. Solves the search for 1 powder in shotgun and pistol.
It costs me about 10 cents/round to shoot the shotgun and 6 cents for the pistol. I like to shoot. These loads don't tear up the guns or my pocket.

[ShrinkMD]

I've been posting similar questions around the net, but this thread and forum appears perfect for it.

I was trying to load some warmer 200 gr LSWC, and I also have the Hornady and Lyman manuals. The bullets I have were made by Dardascastbullets.com, and they are .452 with reported Brinell hardness of 18-20. I think they use Magma molds, and they appear to be H&G 68 style.

I am confused. On page 382 of the Lyman manual, 49th edition, #452460 lists 3.5 to 5.6 for Bullseye, and bullet #452630 lists 4.9 to 6.0 for Bullseye. The data on the second one is similar to Hornady's data for their 200 gr SWC (4.6 to 6.3) The manual lists a seating depth of 1.235 or so for these. Does that sound about right? Then, Alliant's website lists a max of 4.6 of Bullseye with the Speer 200 LSWC.

I loaded some 5.2 gr bullseye, figuring I was well under the maximum loads of 6 to 6.3. Are these safe to shoot? I am using Magtech cases, Wolf Primers.

[Dale53]

The problem is not exactly simple. Bullet weight as well as seating depth play a big part in max pressures. In addition, the swaged bullets from Speer and Hornady (as an example) are soft lead and have limits as to how fast they can be driven (before leading and inaccuracy raises their ugly heads).

If you have the exact same bullet mould that Lyman uses, then the loading data should be close to correct. That is assuming that you use the correct alloy for the job at hand.

FWIW
Dale53

[dale2242]

My 1911 likes Lyman 452460 cast from #2 alloy at slightly over 800 fps.

4.5 gr Bulls Eye
4.5 gr 700X
7 gr WAP
The above loads Chrony within 5 fps average velocity from 812 fps to 817 fps.

[wiljen]

My favorite 200 SWC load has been the #68 or the Lee 200 over 6.9gr of SR 7625. All shots touching at 25 yards is not hard to do if I do my part with either of those loads.

[smith52]

My preferred .45 ACP target load is 4.5gr of Unique behind a 200gr LSWC. It has proven to be an accurate load at 25 yards in my 5" 1911's.

[morme@gte.net]

I'd like to work up a reasonably hot .45 ACP 200gr SWC load. I'm familiar with the Cooper load of 7.3(?) grains of Unique under a 215gr wadcutter, and if I recall that load should run up close to 1100 fps from a 5" barrel, but I'd like to tweak that one a tad.

I'll be using a 200gr cast SWC

Recently, I've been loading the same type bulk bullet with 4.5 grains of Red Dot. 850fps ish from the Alliant web site. I like plated bullets better just for health reasons these days. I haven't done load/accuracy workups like I have for my rifle loads, but I can hit the 12" steel at 100 yards 3 out of 4 times sitting at the rifle bench. (the hits on the freshly painted steel looked like a smiley face)

If I want a hot load, I use 10.6 grains of Blue Dot. A little over 1000fps.

The Hornady 3rd lists 4.9 grains Red Dot for 800fps. 5.2 for 850with a cast 200g bullet.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got two go to loads with a 200 swc. one is the classic load with bullseye. I usually start at 4.2 grains and go up and down a tenth or two to see where it shoots best in a particular gun. then other is with pr200 which is aa2. I run 4.4 grains for a start and vary it from there. It is probably my most used 45 powder. I got it cheap when it was available and still have 5 kegs left. It seems to give me as good of accuracy as bullseye and is a bit cleaner and a bit cheaper.

[skohler]

I recently loaded some 200gr SWC using 700x. I was given a rather large supply of it and want to work up a safe load. The powder is old and was advised to start at the lower end of the chart. I started with 4.5gr. and will chronograph it. I've always used modern vintage powders, this older stuff has me a little nervous.

Also loaded up some 150gr LRN in my 38 special with it, haven't shot it yet either. When you have 12lbs of a powder, I suspect most would try to make it work with what they reload!

[seabreeze133]

7 gr Unique w/200 gr H & G 68 and WLP primers gives 950 in the 1911's I have tried it in and is accurate. A little dirty.

5 gr WST is excellent n and clean.

DB

[mobullets]

I fired 1000's of .45 ACP rounds loaded with 5.1gr of WW231 over the HG68 bullet, mixed brass and CCI primers in club matches. It is an exceptionally accurate round from the Colt Combat Commander I overhauled for the purpose. It's very reliable when you keep a firm grasp of your weapon with stock springs. In all the rounds I fired the only malfunction I ever experienced was my fault. I had jammed my wrist and thumb at work and experienced ONE malfunction; limp wrist shooting can cause a rare stovepipe. That load and pistol combination accounted for many rabbits over the years.

[bluejacket77]

I always liked the 200 swc with 4.0-4.5 gr Bullseye, but a friend who always cleaned my clock on the range years ago got me to using a charge of 5.0 win 231 with Missouri Bullet Company's 200 gr swc, (the 12 bh bullet) I still use it for everything. Our clocks got synched after that lol.

[bluejacket77]

that is why I settled on the 5.0 win 231 load, accurate, hits hard (my shooting buddy nuked my chrony with a .380, and I never replaced it)

[bluejacket77]

I used a lot of blue dot in .357, .44 mag, and 9mm cartridges, and was never less than happy with it. I killed my first deer with a charge of Blue dot under a bulk win 158 jhp in a 6" Dan Wesson .357 love that stuff for upper end work.

[bluejacket77]

great powder for .357 too.