Homemade black powder

[delmar]

Turns out it is not quite dry, is the problem. Or at least one of the problems. The last time I loaded the gun I tamped the ramrod down extra hard and I saw a little moisture coming out!

Two more days in the food dehydrator, and the #11 percussion cap still won't set it off. I'll let you know when I try another recipe.

[windrider919]

read the previous posts:

a) the courser the crystals the harder to ignite

b) the sugar must be melted to surround each particle of KNO3 for complete combustion

c) white powder is hydroscopic: IE: it picks up atmospheric moisture in hours and when wet takes a lot to ignite. It can be ignited with a booster like above and then will still burn with quite a bit of force.

Honestly, I did not mention it before but I freeze dry the 'cookies' before granulation with an old refrigerator compressor used as a vacuum pump and a pressure cooker modified to be a vacuum vessel and put it in the freezer {hole drilled into freezer compartment for vac line} as a vacuum is pulled for a couple days. I also have a lb of desiccant too to help. I then crush the cookies and screen. Then I dip the grains in lacquer drain n dry which water proofs them (unless there is a pinhole in the coating which makes that grain mush). As stated before, I store with a small desiccant pouch inside each container to keep pulling any moisture out or get any that leaks in. I load the cartridges, using magnum primers and shoot them within a couple days.

I only did this to prove I could. I regularly / usually shoot smokeless. Making your own white powder is A LOT OF WORK and would only really be worth it if there was no other source. I did it and could still do it only as a curiosity. It also IS NOT CHEAPER than regular Pyrodex[etc] or real BP. I still make candy fuel for my rocket hobby so all the equipment I built to make white powder is used for that. Remember above when I said that I pulled a vac on the candy fuel element to expand out any bubbles. well I just let the vacuum pump keep running for a while to pull out any moisture still there and then I store the elements in a sealed plastic food storage box with more desiccant crystals. It only comes out of the box to be loaded into the motor and then it gets shot off that day. Before it has time to pick up moisture and turn into mush. The hassle of all this is why I am switching to epoxy/KNO3 which has a higher deltaV energy level anyway.

[Nate1778]

I actually made some a few months back using Willow Charcoal. After corning it, non pressed it actually worked quite well out of my 58 .44 and .36 Navy. It required full chambers to get the bang the same as Goex but it worked to my very surprise. Its easy to make and if you do things correctly its no more dangerous then handling any other "powder". I use the ball mill method.

[perotter]

read the previous posts:

a) the courser the crystals the harder to ignite

b) the sugar must be melted to surround each particle of KNO3 for complete combustion

c) white powder is hydroscopic: IE: it picks up atmospheric moisture in hours and when wet takes a lot to ignite. It can be ignited with a booster like above and then will still burn with quite a bit of force.

Honestly, I did not mention it before but I freeze dry the 'cookies' before granulation with an old refrigerator compressor used as a vacuum pump and a pressure cooker modified to be a vacuum vessel and put it in the freezer {hole drilled into freezer compartment for vac line} as a vacuum is pulled for a couple days. I also have a lb of desiccant too to help. I then crush the cookies and screen. Then I dip the grains in lacquer drain n dry which water proofs them (unless there is a pinhole in the coating which makes that grain mush). As stated before, I store with a small desiccant pouch inside each container to keep pulling any moisture out or get any that leaks in. I load the cartridges, using magnum primers and shoot them within a couple days.

I only did this to prove I could. I regularly / usually shoot smokeless. Making your own white powder is A LOT OF WORK and would only really be worth it if there was no other source. I did it and could still do it only as a curiosity. It also IS NOT CHEAPER than regular Pyrodex[etc] or real BP. I still make candy fuel for my rocket hobby so all the equipment I built to make white powder is used for that. Remember above when I said that I pulled a vac on the candy fuel element to expand out any bubbles. well I just let the vacuum pump keep running for a while to pull out any moisture still there and then I store the elements in a sealed plastic food storage box with more desiccant crystals. It only comes out of the box to be loaded into the motor and then it gets shot off that day. Before it has time to pick up moisture and turn into mush. The hassle of all this is why I am switching to epoxy/KNO3 which has a higher deltaV energy level anyway.

I'm glad that I've always followed the IMR/mil method. Yours is a lot work & it sounds like the doesn't work as well as the water ones. What was the tested fps of your's compared to bp?

[Charlie Sometimes]

Question.

Sugar is mostly carbon. I remember a chemistry class in Jr. High where the teacher poured sulfuric acid into a beaker that contained granulated sugar. The largest column of carbon I have ever seen started rising out of that beaker until one or both of the ingredients had been expended.

Could that pure carbon be used as one of the ingredients of homemade BP?

By reading all of these posts, it seems to me that the old timers made due with what they had, didn't matter how long it took (they needed it), and in the course of invention and discovery gained knowledge of what worked better each time. Hence you are using smokeless powders and other modern conglomerations, all with a new ingredient called "marketing" to end up where we are today and the earlier knowledge is now "lost" knowledge, or so some think.

To those that say something about a black market springing up if they ever outlaw it, or something to that effect- someone has got to know how to do it, and what works, BEFORE that happens, or else no SPRING for the "resistance". Long, cold winter for all if they ever do. Safety is out the window when that happens, and urgency is more important. There is none of this mamby-pamby stuff when your way of living and freedom is on the line.

[felix]

Worth a try, but safety first and foremost. However, ever try and get a gallon of H2SO4? See your local furniture stripper and do some sweet talk. You are going to use it to add H and S to your swimming pool!!!! That is the only way to get it without paperwork (that I know of). Forget going to a chemical wholesale house unless you know someone. ... felix

[delmar]

read the previous posts:

It's not that I didn't read your posts. I set out to follow a particular recipe. Once I started, there was no way I was going to change what I was doing until I was finished. So I finished and reported my results.

a) the courser the crystals the harder to ignite

b) the sugar must be melted to surround each particle of KNO3 for complete combustion

c) white powder is hydroscopic: IE: it picks up atmospheric moisture in hours and when wet takes a lot to ignite. It can be ignited with a booster like above and then will still burn with quite a bit of force.

Honestly, I did not mention it before but I freeze dry the 'cookies' before granulation with an old refrigerator compressor used as a vacuum pump and a pressure cooker modified to be a vacuum vessel and put it in the freezer {hole drilled into freezer compartment for vac line} as a vacuum is pulled for a couple days. I also have a lb of desiccant too to help. I then crush the cookies and screen. Then I dip the grains in lacquer drain n dry which water proofs them (unless there is a pinhole in the coating which makes that grain mush). As stated before, I store with a small desiccant pouch inside each container to keep pulling any moisture out or get any that leaks in. I load the cartridges, using magnum primers and shoot them within a couple days.

I only did this to prove I could. I regularly / usually shoot smokeless. Making your own white powder is A LOT OF WORK and would only really be worth it if there was no other source. I did it and could still do it only as a curiosity. It also IS NOT CHEAPER than regular Pyrodex[etc] or real BP.

I had to pay $18/lbs for the Pyrodex I bought the other day. The KNO3 I bought to make this was a little under $7/lbs and sugar is a lot less. If I can find a recipe that works, with minor modifications it seems like it might be quite worthwhile to make more, untill I can find a good deal on BP at the end of hunting season.

I still make candy fuel for my rocket hobby so all the equipment I built to make white powder is used for that. Remember above when I said that I pulled a vac on the candy fuel element to expand out any bubbles. well I just let the vacuum pump keep running for a while to pull out any moisture still there and then I store the elements in a sealed plastic food storage box with more desiccant crystals. It only comes out of the box to be loaded into the motor and then it gets shot off that day. Before it has time to pick up moisture and turn into mush. The hassle of all this is why I am switching to epoxy/KNO3 which has a higher deltaV energy level anyway.

[delmar]

Test #2
KNO3 mixed 50/50 by volume with powdered sugar. Mixed it in the coffee grinder for 60 sec. this is an ultra fine powder. The first burn I did was easier to light than the previous batch, but when I tried to make a video it took a bit to light. This powder does appear to burn hotter than the first. Could be because I used powdered sugar instead of granular, which would weigh less. This would mean I have a higher % of KNO3 in this batch. I guess I really should break out the scales
There were a couple of small "pearls so I am guessing my sugar was a little moist, so I'm going to put it in the dehydrator for a while before I try it in my gun.
http://radar.net/people/DelStacy24/p...from=/my-radar

The coffee grinder I bought was a Hamilton Beach. $15 at Walmart. This model lets you press the button and it goes for 10 to 30 seconds (depending on the setting) so I didn't have to rig the switch to stand back!

[perotter]

Worth a try, but safety first and foremost. However, ever try and get a gallon of H2SO4? See your local furniture stripper and do some sweet talk. You are going to use it to add H and S to your swimming pool!!!! That is the only way to get it without paperwork (that I know of). Forget going to a chemical wholesale house unless you know someone. ... felix

There are certain strong drain cleaners that H2SO4 is the active ingredient. Something like 20-30%. Haven't bought any lately. Around here ACE hardware has them.

[perotter]

Question.

Sugar is mostly carbon. I remember a chemistry class in Jr. High where the teacher poured sulfuric acid into a beaker that contained granulated sugar. The largest column of carbon I have ever seen started rising out of that beaker until one or both of the ingredients had been expended.

Could that pure carbon be used as one of the ingredients of homemade BP?

By reading all of these posts, it seems to me that the old timers made due with what they had, didn't matter how long it took (they needed it), and in the course of invention and discovery gained knowledge of what worked better each time. Hence you are using smokeless powders and other modern conglomerations, all with a new ingredient called "marketing" to end up where we are today and the earlier knowledge is now "lost" knowledge, or so some think.

To those that say something about a black market springing up if they ever outlaw it, or something to that effect- someone has got to know how to do it, and what works, BEFORE that happens, or else no SPRING for the "resistance". Long, cold winter for all if they ever do. Safety is out the window when that happens, and urgency is more important. There is none of this mamby-pamby stuff when your way of living and freedom is on the line.

If the carbon is porous it would work well.

Nitrocellulose lacquers are available, but expense to use to make a propellant. And to get to clean one should add about 10%, by weight, KNO3.

But, ping pong ball are made from nitrocellulose. And if one buys 5 to 10 gross of them at a time, they or about $6 a pound. They do have something in that slows the burn rate down enough that they can't be used directly as a powder.

A few week ago I made a few 100 grains of a ping pong ball powder that works in a .38 Special. 50% ping pong ball by weight. The other 50% was ammonium nitrate/potassium nitrate/ammonium dichromate. Grained it 1.5mm x 1.5mm x 0.01 inch. The mix of metric & US is because the powder cutter is imported.

FWIW, ammonium dichromate is a burn rate cat for ammonium nitrate. Plain old table salt may work as good or better. May real interest is in ammide powders. The NC one is just one of what I've got working.

[delmar]

I ground a bunch of vitamin C tabs into powder and ground a tablespoon of that with a tablespoon of KNO3 didn't seem to work. Could be the tabs are moist or it could be that they contain a lot of inert stuff. I'm going to try drying it before I give up.

[windrider919]

perotter - I did not chrongraph any white powder loads but you have to reduce the amount because if used same volume as BP you get a bigger bang.

delmar- tablets have filler and binders that must be removed. The only way I know is to desolve, strain through a coffee filter and dry back to crystals. Also, the correct proportions for KNO3/ sucrose is 65% KNO3 to 35% sugar. Same with Vit C white powder.

On cost, pharmaceutical or human use grade vit C is very expensive because of certified purity. Totally un-economical. Buy industrial grade for a fraction of the price. I bought a 100 lbs in 50 lb sacks for $78.00 [per 50 lbs]three years ago on ebay

KNO3 from;







Note:Almost all Chinese ping-pong balls are still nitrocellulose. If made in USA or Europe they are plastic. I dissolve them in lacquer thinner and use in my motor ignitors to coat the nichrome wire element

[delmar]

delmar- tablets have filler and binders that must be removed. The only way I know is to desolve, strain through a coffee filter and dry back to crystals. Also, the correct proportions for KNO3/ sucrose is 65% KNO3 to 35% sugar. Same with Vit C white powder.

I ran that Vitaman C/ KNO3 powder through an auto drip coffee maker. I have a bowl of that souution sitting in the food dehydrator. I suppose the water will evaporate out in a few days to a week. The straight C tabs powder I ran through the coffee maker and 1/2 cup of it cooked down to a little over a tablespoon. I will powder that again when it drys and see what I've got.

[Charlie Sometimes]

IIRC, the carbon made from adding H2SO4 to granulated sugar was very porous- and would have been good to blend with the sulphur and salt peter.
Saw a "Mtyth Busters" show where they build a Civil War era rocket using parrifin mixed with powdered carbon, and Nitrous Oxide. It worked. Parafin is a petroleum distilate- any carbon there?

H2SO4- battery acid. None of the so-called automobile "maintenance-free" batteries are perfectly sealed. Drain some old ones.

[lavenatti]

Sorbitol (the sugar substitute) can be used with the potassium nitrate in the same proportions to produce a similiar propellant. Sorbitol can take a higher temperature than sugar before it starts to turn brown, it will also produce a non-hygroscopic propellant.

It may cost a little more but who wants soggy bullets?

[delmar]

Sorbitol (the sugar substitute) can be used with the potassium nitrate in the same proportions to produce a similiar propellant. Sorbitol can take a higher temperature than sugar before it starts to turn brown, it will also produce a non-hygroscopic propellant.

It may cost a little more but who wants soggy bullets?

I'm oly going to be using this in my muzzleloader so keeping the powder dry until I shoot should be easier.

[preparehandbook]

Both reenactors and model rocketeers routinely make black powder safely and the rocket folks do it with children. It is not difficult nor significantly more dangerous than using a blackpowder firearm. What people seem to be missing is that blackpowder is mixed, versus produced through a chemical reaction, so there are apprpriate cautions mostly related to friction and static.

If a person cannot follow directions and safety cautions to safely mix blackpowder then they are probably incapable of safely handling a blackpowder firearm.

That being said, I don't make it because I live in california and here they'll call you a terrorist for having a garden inside city limits. (sad but true).

[preparehandbook]

IIRC, the carbon made from adding H2SO4 to granulated sugar was very porous- and would have been good to blend with the sulphur and salt peter.
Saw a "Mtyth Busters" show where they build a Civil War era rocket using parrifin mixed with powdered carbon, and Nitrous Oxide. It worked. Parafin is a petroleum distilate- any carbon there?

H2SO4- battery acid. None of the so-called automobile "maintenance-free" batteries are perfectly sealed. Drain some old ones.

Come on, it's network television, they don't teach you to make rockets. I have a friend who works on the Mythbuster's production staff, the show is scripted. The experiments results are decided before filming and "testing" begins. Many times recipes are changed (ala magyver) to make sure they won't work. My friend is always surprised when people ask him about a particular show and he has to explain that the episode was done with CG, special effects and "movie magic". It is important to remember that mythbusters is a fictional show that should be taken to be as real as superman.

[leftiye]

One thing the warnings don't explain is how hot the stuff (black powder) burns. In the open air at three feet a charge of 3 or 4 hundred grains will blow the hat off of your head and give you second degree burns on the face as well as taking a lot of your hair with it. Body parts that are closer can be charred. (you will dissappear monentarily in the cloud of smoke and your glasses will save your eyesight)

[Springfield]

All the cowboy mounted shooters and re-enactors I hang out with make their own blanks but they use commercially bought BP. Model rocketeers also buy their engines pre-made, unless you are talking about something much more complicated than the Estes type model rockets that have been around forever and are sold in hobby shops.