Little Guys for .303

[longbow]

I decided to try paper patching some little boolits for .303 and see how fast I can push them.

These are cast in one of my push out moulds originally made for 180 gr. PP but being a push out mould weight is adjustable.

I made up a couple of spacers aiming for 125 gr. but overshot (no pun intended) a little and wound up with 98 grs. +/-.

As cast are 0.301" on the left

Grooved/knurled are 0.304"

Paper patched are 0.314" (3 wraps of 0.002" tracing paper)

Big brother on the right is the 180 gr. I leave in the mould when not in use.

I found that my .303" didn't like the 180 gr. at 0.301" so tried grooving to increase diameter a few thou. That worked well with the 180 gr.

Boolits are air cooled range scrap which seems a little softer than ACWW. I don't have a hardness tester so no precise hardness measurement.

Not sure how the short bodied PP boolit will do through the throat but will be finding out.

I will Load a few with Unique or Blue Dot for moderate loads to test accuracy and if all is well I will use 125 gr. "J" bullet loads for screamers to see what happens.

Longbow

[docone31]

Way cool, I am looking forward to range reports.
Ought to be little snappers!
I like the design.

[303Guy]

This is going to be fun!

The 303 has quite a bit of jump. Are these going to be seated shoulder deep or as far out as possible?

I started looking through my moulds to see which ones I could shorten.

Looking forward to your results!

[longbow]

These little guys will be seated fairly deep. Well, not so much deep as they don't have much body length but short for the throat.

It will be quite a jump and maybe not going to work well, but I thought I would give it a go anyway. I have only cast and patched a couple of dozen so if the test batch doesn't work then they go back in the pot.

I was planning on something more like 125 to 130 gr. anyway. Instead of just sleeving and casting I should have measured and calculated then I would have gotten closer to desired weight.

But I was in the mood to make something! If it works, great! If it doesn't well, just bit of time lost. I will shorten the sleeves and cast again.

Hoping to load up and shoot this weekend.

I'll keep you posted.

Longbow

[303Guy]

I've thinking about this one. To me, the biggest obstacle is the length of the lighter boolit. But, if the patched boolit engages the leade fully, there is less mass to start spinning so it might tolerate more jump. And since there is less mass to spin, one could go a step further and make the core narrower with a thicker patch. Longer, more slender, less jump, more streamlined, less centrifugal forces .... ?

What would happen if we designed a boolit with a tail rebate the length of the neck and gave the rebate an extra sleave under the patch?

[longbow]

No, I haven't got them shot or even loaded yet. I was out fishing today. Nice day but no fish ~ at least no keepers, got a few small ones.

I am hoping since the little guys (boolits not fish) are patched to about throat diameter they will be guided during the jump. We will see.

I am not sure but I think I know what you mean, a two diameter boolit (kinda like with a long gas check shank) that you first wrap the shank, then wrap the whole thing, so effectively double patched at the shank area?

If that is what you mean then I guess I understand. If so I think the body wrapping would take the driving forces okay but I am not so sure the shank wrapping would shred and leave the boolit, which may be a problem. It would certainly be easy to try though and see how it works. It would make for a longer more slender and aerodynamic boolit if it worked.

I have enough on my plate at the moment so I will leave this one up to you to test.

Longbow

[303Guy]

(kinda like with a long gas check shank)

Yup. That's what I mean. It might not shred as you suggest. Only one way to find out. Somehow I will just have to find a way.

[longbow]

Well, another one bites the dust!

I got out and shot the "little guys". They didn't do so well. I guess my .303 likes longer boolits.

I suspect the long jump was the issue even though they were patched to throat sizse.

I loaded up 5 over 13 grs. of Unique for a mild load to see how they did (thinking this might be worthwhile) and 10 over 45 grs. of IMR4064 since the goal was to make high speed boolits.

I put up a 24" wide x 36" high target with nice dot in the middle and proceeded to make a buckshot group. A nice cluster of 5 in about 18" at 50 yards. All holes were nice and round with no sign of tumbling or yaw so something went right ~ but accuracy was non existent.

I decided to shoot away the other 10 since making them go bang is much more fun than pulling boolits. These did slightly better than the first 5 but still a very large group.

Since the 180 gr. PP shoot well I will have to check seating depth to put the paper patch just into the rifling then see how much I can shorten it and still have boolit butt in the neck. I guess that is as light a boolit as I am going to get.

Oh well, I tried.

Longbow

[303Guy]

I wonder whether one could design a light boolit for the Lee Enfield with a large and deep hollow point? The grooves could also be made deeper. I have made one or two short boolits but cannot go further as my melting pot died. Just how deep or shallow can one seat the boolit? Specially with a wad. These shorties are 22mm (.86") long and weigh in at 160gr. That will give about 5mm (.2") seating depth. I'm thinking that with appropriate wadding, that little guy should reach some 2700 to 2800fps without too much pressure.

[longbow]

I think as long as there is enough in the neck to hold the boolit things would be okay. I remember reading an article by Steve Milek (if memory serves) about how he would only neck size about 1/16" of case neck ~ just enough to grip the bullet (jacketed). This is somewhat contrary to the idea of high bullet pull but if consistency is the name of the game this reduces the neck tension variable anyway.

I suppose if the boolit is patched to fit the throat and just touches the rifling then a littlle in the neck would do it.

All I was looking at was to see if a light boolit would work for high velocity milk jug killing.

I think boolits of 150 gr. on up will have enough length that this won't be a problem.

Now I hadn't really thought about a deep hollow point but that may give me enough length to engage rifling with boolit butt in the neck and be light enough to give high velocity ~ plus the hollow point would likely cause dramatic blow up (the blow up factor is what I am after here).

I'll work on it.

Longbow

[303Guy]

Great! I'll be looking forward to your results. My interest in lighter boolits is for flat shootin' reach and blow-up, i.e. varminting. That would be fun! (Water filled milk jugs pass off as varmints when they explode!)

Here's the 160 grainer, ready to be loaded. (Lonely little fella).



P.S. Have a look at how the ends meet. Pretty neat! It's a little trick I have learned. (That angle works just fine - it stays intact during chambering and extracting but comes off at the muzzle on firing).

[WILCO]

but cannot go further as my melting pot died.

Get a hot plate and a cast iron pan Dude!

[longbow]

I agree on the hot plate! Seems to me that I read a lot of complaints about pots failing, valves dripping and such.

I am a simple man and like to keep things simple. I use a propane stove and cast iron plumber's pot with large ladle for casting and have done so for about 40 years with no problems.

Back to the subject at hand.

303guy:

Is that a hollow point or solid design?

Did you check seating depth to see if the patch engages rifling when seated?

What I was wanting was a high velocity varmint round and thought if the PP boolits would work it wouldn't get much better ~ a light soft alloy boolit ripping along at high velocity should be spectacular at impact.

What I will try next is check throat length to see what the gun wants and then work backwards to how light a boolit that will allow. Maybe it will be 150 or 160 gr. If so then a deep hollow point may help but I was hoping for a reasonably streamlined boolit too for relatively long range shooting. We'll see how it works out.

Longbow

[bandit7.5]

I read every post and still could not tell if its a 303enfield or a 303savage a lot of difference there

[303Guy]

Get a hot plate and a cast iron pan Dude!

I am thinking so too! The bottom pour has one advantage - that being able to cover the lead with sand, eliminating the need for fluxing and skimming. I still stirred from time to time with a stick - wet wood works great! Bad idea - don't do it! (I was using a 'less than fully cured' stick in a melt covered with sand). What I might do is divide the surface with a baffle and keep a small enough area clear for dipping my ladle - which is virtually new and I can't find!

Is that a hollow point or solid design?

Solid. I started out with the hollow point idea before I moved forward into the 19th centuary of paper patching! Now all I need is a reasonably soft, exposed lead point!

I had not tried that boolit in the throat - something to do with rushing off to do a spot of shooting - but I have tried it now and no, it does not fit. Too big! I am now doing another one which will fit - just waiting for it to dry. (Then I will have to melt some lead somehow to do more trials - and find my ladle).

I am trying to remember who has the aeronautical engineer buddy? He might be able to suggest the most streamlined, short boolit with the longest bearing surface to us, perhaps?

[Nrut]

I read every post and still could not tell if its a 303enfield or a 303savage a lot of difference there

Sadly it's the .303 Brit. ... It's a Commonwealth thing you see..

[303Guy]

Sadly it's the .303 Brit. ... It's a Commonwealth thing you see..

Hee hee! I don't think the 303 Savage would give us quite so much trouble - ummm... I mean fun! The Savage was designed for CB and has a long neck that we don't have the luxury of - Sadly!

FWIMBW, I think the 303 Sav deserves to be resurrected! (Did you folks know that 303 Sav ammo can be fired in the 303 Brit? (Not sure why anyone would want to do that though!)

[longbow]

Yes, .303 British. And yes, it is a commonwealth thing. I guess anyway. I do know a guy with a .303 Savage though.

The Lyman 160 and 200 gr. PP boolits have very good ballistic coefficients and that is what I modeled my PP mould after. Some of the Loverins are pretty good too. I understand that those can be sized down considerably so a standard .308" mould may allow sizing and patching for .303.

The 200 gr. has a really high ballistic coefficient but is a little heavy for a speedy varmint round.

I may have to accept lower velocity and a big hollow point for destructive purposes.

To be honest, I would prefer to use a cast boolit without paper patching if I could get away with it and if I have to go heavy and slower that is likely the direction I will take.

I may have mentioned this but I am lazy and paper patching is extra work. If it serves a purpose then I will do it otherwise I would rather not.

Longbow

[303Guy]

Well, I patched and loaded and tested a different lightweight (relatively - 165gr) boolit and I think it might even work. It seated 4.5mm into the neck and fully contacted the leade.


The leade impression is penciled darker for clarity.



I am quite proud of the patch 'ends'. There is no visible joint impression on the fired boolit.

[longbow]

165 gr. is a little heavier than I wanted but the length is probably required.

A deep hollow point will knock off a few grs. but I sort of doubt I will get below 150 grs. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Longbow