How to tighten a 99 takedown?

[6.5 mike]

Has anyone had to tighten a bbl in a 99? Picked one up at a show today & bbl has a fair amount of wobble. Can you shim this out, or is there a better way to do it? This is a 99f, & ya it's another 303, but has a good bore. The numbers I have date it to 1916.
It also has the orignal wood matched to the reciever number. Traded a rifle I had about 100 bucks in, so even if I have to take it to the shop I'll come out ahead. Only bad thing , it's been reblued. Primed 2 cases & held the bbl back against the reciever fired 1, then pulled the bbl out as far as I could & fired the other. Bang both times so I know the fireing pin will reach if the bbl is shimed out.
Any thougths or ideas will be a big help, thanks.

[stocker]

Shimming , as against the barrel shoulder, will increase tor maximize the head space. A lot of guys have shaped a drift to fit properly against the back of the barrel threads and using a light hammer have moved the threads one (or a part of one thread section) thread at a time towards the muzzle. It may take you a few attempts to accomplish this correctly. Don't get too aggressive. You are tapping the rear surface of the threads to move the forward part ahead and tighten the lock up. Easier to do if yours is a V thread as opposed to a square thread. Have a lot of patience but it can be done.

[6.5 mike]

stocker, thank you. I can see how this would be a much better then shimming. This one does have square threads, so will take it slow & easy. Guess this leaves the 28 oz framing hammer on the rack.
Patience with a fine old firearm is no problem, it's no patience with new junk that's my problem. Just ask my wife. Thanks again for the advice, I'll let you know how this comes out.

[Bret4207]

Another alternative is to use a good grade Loc-tite type product. It won't correct the headspace issue, which may not be a real issue, but it will tighten things up. While I love the 99 the take down feature was never a good thing in my mind.

[6.5 mike]

Bret, the takedown feature is nice but people overdid it & loosened the gun up without thinking. I did think about hard mounting the bbl & may still be an way to go.
I'll try bumping the threads first & if I can get it to where I have to put some pressure on it to line up the bbl slot I'll leave it in. I don't need to take it in & out.
I think a lee 185 would make some good whitetail loads in this caliber.

[Bret4207]

I use the RCBS 180FN in mine and can duplicate the factory loading- 190 gr at 1950 fps. Darn crescent buttplate knocks me around a bit, but I'm built all wrong for that stock anyway. I still love it! Even better is the Lyman 311316 or Lee Soup Can at about 1500 fps. Never failed to stop a charging tin can yet! My 220 Swift brass is working well, although if I ever get some 307 Win brass that's supposed to be even better.

[Mk42gunner]

I use the RCBS 180FN in mine and can duplicate the factory loading- 190 gr at 1950 fps. Darn crescent buttplate knocks me around a bit, but I'm built all wrong for that stock anyway. I still love it! Even better is the Lyman 311316 or Lee Soup Can at about 1500 fps. Never failed to stop a charging tin can yet! My 220 Swift brass is working well, although if I ever get some 307 Win brass that's supposed to be even better.

Uh Bret,

I don't think the 307 Win brass will work as a parent case for 303 Savage, since it is basically a rimmed 308.

Robert

[windrider919]

I would NOT 'bump' or 'peen' the threads!!! Yes it will work but it also will cause stress cracks and possible thread failure with catastrophic results to the shooter. Its a hillbilly repair. The only repair I have seen that both worked and lasted used an aerospace metal powder filled epoxy called Belizona Molecular Metal to permanently bond the barrel in the action. They used some fine lead wire in the threads to reestablish the correct headspace along with a headspace gauge. You must use this epoxy or similar because Devcon and others are just not strong enough. I used this method to fix a .300 and a .250. The .300 has been shot a couple hundred rounds every year since 1986 when I repaired it. My father in law keeps it in his truck year round as his #1 rifle.

A 2oz kit will cost about $50.00 but it is cheap at the price. It will fix the un-fixable!

As a second choice: The other two part epoxy I don't have the name for (sorry) but is used to glue metal aircraft parts together instead of riveting them. It is available at aviation supply stores for about $40.00 for 2 ea (part A, part B), 4oz tubes. I think the last time I bought it I got it from Falcon Crest Aviation Supply on Branif Blvd at Hobby Airport in Houston Tx. Has to be available at many places around the country.

[Harry O]

I used to own a Model 99 takedown in .22 Savage High-Power. It had excess headspace even though the takedown feature seemed snug. After firing once or sometimes twice, the casehead would separate. The gun was very little used and in perfect shape. I doubt that it was caused by excessive use.

Interestingly enough, Ken Waters tested three of the 99's in that caliber (two takedown and one that have been modified to fixed barrel) and my brother-in-law (many years later) also had one. They ALL had excess headspace. I wonder if it was the takedown mechanism itself was the problem. As long as you don't handload, it is not that much of a problem. However, it was not very accurate either.

For those who have never taken one down before, you move a little lever on the bottom of the forearm, swing the forearm down and off, grab the barrel and turn it about 1/3 of the way around, then pull it forward. The threads are very coarse, square, interrupted threads.

I took it to a gunsmith and he looked at it a while and said that nothing could be done short of threading it for a fixed barrel. I eventually got rid of it. I suppose that someone could have done something, but back then there were very few gunsmiths and they were local, not that you could get on the Internet and search for someone with that specialty. Hope you have better luck than me.

[Bret4207]

Uh Bret,

I don't think the 307 Win brass will work as a parent case for 303 Savage, since it is basically a rimmed 308.

Robert

I'm using 220 Swift brass reformed to 303 Savage now and people tell me that won't work either. I got the 307 info from the Savage 99 board at Greybeard or some other place. It'd only take a couple cases to find out.

[6.5 mike]

Talked to my gunsmith about this before I came back to the boat, he said bumping the threads had been the way, provided you where only trying to take up a very small amount. With the forearm off & the alinging slot matched up I was only able to slip a piece of tracing paper in the gap. Did this on all four sides while holding pressure to the off side. When the bbl is tight & does not wobble, the aliniing slot is less then 1/2 way across the opening.
As far as the headspace in the chamber, I can use a long boolit seated to enage the riflings to fireform the norma brass. It is 303 sav new cases. The 22 hipower I had needed the same thing to get it to group well using cil brass & speer .228 bullets.
windrider919, I ,too, had doubts about bumping the threads but I trust my gunsmith, he's been in the same place for 34 years & is the only real shop in our area, thanks for your info on the aircraft adhevises, I got away from that area when I retired.
Bret4207, I think, looking at the spec's ,the 307 would be a better choice if I was going to reform my owen. Do enough of that with a 6m/m tcu & a 6.5 jdj in my contender. thanks to all for the info & help, Ill let ya'll know how this comes out.

[leftiye]

Brett, the swift, and the .308 (307) have different head sizes. Correct me if I'm wrong - the .307 is a rimmed .308?

[Bret4207]

The 303 Savage, Swift and 307 do all have different rim and base sizes. That's what case forming is all about. The Swift semi rim is a bit small. If I understand correctly, never had a 307 case in hand, the 307 is closer to what we need. Actually what we need is for Starline to turn of real 303 Savage Brass.

[gnoahhh]

Because the barrel steel is un-hardened I can't see where bumping the threads would cause any to crack. Maybe if you beat them back and forth a few times. There's a good sticky at the top of the Savage Forum over on the 24hour campfire on this very subject.

I love the old 1899 Takedowns. I've often wondered how one can get really loose so long as the threads are lubed and care is taken in dismantling. I have one that I've owned for about 20 years now that I've taken down countless times for cleaning and it's as tight as the day it was made. I wonder if sometimes the looseness might be attributable to a non-original barrel someone swapped onto it along the way.

My most accurate 99 is a .22 HiPower 1899H, 1912 vintage. It too is tight, but the chamber is a little on the outside of tolerances. Headspace is fine. To maximize case life I take care to use brass that has the max OD just ahead of the rim- usually R-P .30/30 brass or W-W .25/35 brass. Using this brass, neck sizing (after fire forming) and keeping loads well under max gives me 6-7 loadings on average which I can live with.

I gave up on making .303S brass out of other things. Partial success doesn't cut it when I put my peepers behind 40,000 psi of hot powder gasses. I bit the bullet and bought a stash of W-W NOS unprimed brass and am glad I did.

My old custom SAECO 190gr. flat nose easily duplicates factory velocities with modest powder charges and excellent accuracy. Who needs J-bullets?!

[6.5 mike]

Gnoahhh, thanks for the info, I'll check it out. I had though about the bbl not being the right one, but I haven't pulled the action apart yet. If the follower is marked for a different caliber I'll know it got swapped somewhere along the line. Won't be able to do anything until I get back to the house on the 8th.
Leftiye, what we've been talking about is the 307 win is larger ahead of the rim then a 30-30, as was the 303 sav. In the old archives, one guy was sleeving 30-30s with cut down 40 s&w cases to take up the differance. The rim on the 303s is about the same as a 30-30. The new 308 marlin is more like a rimmed 308, I think.

[6.5 mike]

Took the savage apart today. Follower is marked 303, so that lets the wrong bbl idea out. All the numbers match, unless some one had two 303s apart at the same time, I 'll take it this is the right bbl. Back to square one. It does seem strange that the bbls aren't numbered, but the other two I had weren't either.

[gnoahhh]

Savage never numbered barrels. (I know,never say never when it comes to Savages.)

[6.5 mike]

Gnoahhh, Finaly got a chance to look at that camp fire page, thanks again for the info.
And, yes you are right about never say never with Sav. Seems that part is cast in very wet concrete. It does seem strange that they didn't match # the bbls though.
I think Bret is right, sure would be nice if starline would make a some 303 Sav brass.
I haven't tried their brass yet, but everything I've read here rates it very high. Thanks again.

[Three44s]

I would NOT 'bump' or 'peen' the threads!!! Yes it will work but it also will cause stress cracks and possible thread failure with catastrophic results to the shooter. Its a hillbilly repair. The only repair I have seen that both worked and lasted used an aerospace metal powder filled epoxy called Belizona Molecular Metal to permanently bond the barrel in the action. They used some fine lead wire in the threads to reestablish the correct headspace along with a headspace gauge.
.................................................. .........

A 2oz kit will cost about $50.00 but it is cheap at the price. It will fix the un-fixable!

.................................................. ........

Here's a link:

http://www.belzona.com/products.aspx

Interesting

I sold a .250 Savage years ago with this malady and a gunsmith had already tipped the threads. It did little for the excessive headspace.

Short of this Belzona product working, if it were my gun, I would adjust the sizer die accordingly and see if I could live with the results.

Three 44s

[Echo]

Patience with a fine old firearm is no problem, it's no patience with new junk that's my problem. Just ask my wife.

I congratulate you on your acceptance of your wife considering you to be 'new junk'. Means you will probably have a long and happy marriage.