Let's design a .351 Paper Patch Boolit

[45 2.1]

I am really waiting to see what 45 2.1 comes up with I spose. Stay tuned

You got e-mail.............................

[303Guy]

While we are talking of boolit design - I made my PC boolit taper so as to fit the throat and leade (and unsized neck). This means that the leade engages the boolit over its taper simultaneously and that the boolit engages the rifling progressively to full depth toward the rear where the remainder of it gets swaged to groove diam. A low speed boolit works just fine and 'high' speed boolits seemed to be accurate so I am assuming the principle works. But with PP, the paper needs to be over a bore sized shank so as to cut properly. This means I must either shorten the boolit or leave some lead exposed to partially engage the rifling or go to a bore riding nose. Exposed lead will need lube. I'm not sure what my next boolit should look like!
Any thoughts?

[windrider919]

Hi 303Guy. No you don't want any lead touching the bore for the 1600FPS loads and up. And there is another thing to consider, it is traditional to say that the rifling 'cuts' the patch because the deep BP rifling appears to do just that from the recovered confetti in front of the bore. However, I and other smokeless shooters that do not have deep rifling still shed our patches at the muzzle as very small paper flakes. Too small to call confetti, its just paper dust. Again, we have discussed this in earlier threads trying to determine the mechanism. I think it will all be theory until we can photograph a PP bullet as it leaves the muzzle. Some say that the centrifugal force throws the cut patch off. But some rifling and polygonal barrels do not cut the patch. Centrifugal force could still have some effect though. Others propose that the muzzle blast shreds the patch from behind as the bullet leaves the muzzle. And still others think that the airflow over the bullet tear off the patch. I actually think muzzle blast has the greatest effect, at least with my rifle. I have 6 very narrow and shallow lands that could NOT cut through more than one layer of patch. and my patches are blown to dust right at the muzzle. I tried to capture some in an 8" cardboard tube sprayed with adhesive but only got paper dust. and not much of that.

You said: But with PP, the paper needs to be over a bore sized shank so as to cut properly. This means I must either shorten the boolit or leave some lead exposed to partially engage the rifling or go to a bore riding nose. Exposed lead will need lube. I'm not sure what my next boolit should look like!

I do know that as mentioned above the Windrider bullet paper patch touches and centers on the bore diameter and does not need exposed lead to touch. In other words, the paper is bore riding and not the lead. So nothing cuts that first 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch (depending on how far I cary the patch forward up the ogive. I have done it so far forward the paper started to wrinkle and those patches still shed perfectly.

Sure looking forward to what 45 2.1 draws up, you going to post it for us?

[357maximum]

45 2.1 emailed me a beautiful boolit. We have a few things to finish up on it and then he will do the deed. This is going to be a great thing if we find a way to get into fruition. Ir will pleasa anyone wanting a 200 grain PP for a .35 as well as the 348 winnie guys....just a win win situation.

[303Guy]

Thanks for the explanation, windrider919. That makes life a whole lot easier!

[45 2.1]

Something to look at, 0.351" diameter, about 200 gr. cast of soft alloy and very suitable as a plinker/small game boolit out of the 348 Win. This design will probably be available soon to everyone.

[windrider919]

Where do you plan to have the case mouth located? I know this bullet is planned for PP so it does not get crimped. So obviously it does not need a crimp groove. I usually just use the crimp groove to locate the proper seating depth anyway. Would this be a base pour or nose pour and if base pour have you considered a HP?

[45 2.1]

Where do you plan to have the case mouth located? I know this bullet is planned for PP so it does not get crimped. So obviously it does not need a crimp groove. I usually just use the crimp groove to locate the proper seating depth anyway. Would this be a base pour or nose pour and if base pour have you considered a HP?

All ya'll get here is the printed word........... The case mouth is at the top lube groove (so to speak) and my PP loads do get crimped into those lube grooves (since the paper shrinks into them and the paper isn't cut in any way. Crimp is not what you think it is at times. You do have to have a smooth inner case mouth when you do this though. The mold will be produced as a base pour and mine will be a four cavity with one of those cavities hollow pointed, although it won't be needed in the PP application.

[leftiye]

Let's do a 300 grainer (or 250 grs.) too!

[357maximum]

Leftie- you are on your own as to a boolit that heavy.

Some encouraging news for this little project though:

the man making the moulds is yet to arrive on scene as a commercial enterprise in our field. He has been making moulds for quite some time and I have over a dozen of his works of art in my possession that I have aquired over the past couple of years. The way it is looking right now orders could be taken as soon as 2 weeks, and delivery would be about 3 weeks behind that. They should be available as either a 2 or 4 cavity and there may be other odd options for those that feel the need to poke a hole in the front of a soft boolit.

Price would be less than the bigtime custom boys charge and similar to what the other small time talented folks are charging here. I will likely choose a straight 4 cavity mould, but am yet undecided.


He will poke his head in here when the time comes.

[windrider919]

Here is a picture of a bullet for PP that 45 2.1 helped me work out.



A loaded 458 WinMag round and both a naked bullet and samples of my patches

The cast n shoot diameter is .454, patch to .463 to fit the throat. The grooves are like ranch dogs or Lee Tumble Groove grooves to help hold the patch on for shooting smokeless.

[303Guy]

I couldn't help noticing the folded patch tail so I have attempted to zoom in a little.



It didn't work. But you get the idea!

[rbuck351]

I too would like one in 250 gr, and if the mold maker made a cherry a couple of lube grooves longer it could be made in two or three weights.

[Nrut]

Here is a picture of a bullet for PP that 45 2.1 helped me work out.



A loaded 458 WinMag round and both a naked bullet and samples of my patches

The cast n shoot diameter is .454, patch to .463 to fit the throat. The grooves are like ranch dogs or Lee Tumble Groove grooves to help hold the patch on for shooting smokeless.

I like yours and 45 2.1 designs Windrider...Who cuts your molds? .....I am interested in these cast to bore dia.+ boolits in several calibers. including the one .357 maximum is proposing....

I am just a beginner with PP (second season) but sure glad to see more people take interest in PP...Keep up the good work!
Mic

[windrider919]

I had a brass mould made by Bernie at Old West Bullet Moulds:

http://www.oldwestbulletmoulds.com/

It is an excellent mould, well machined and turns out premium bullets. He produced it for me in 30 days from the time I sent him the final drawing and payment.

$100.00 for cherry

$105.00 for long bullet double mould

$12.00 shipping

HOWEVER: I also included $18.00 for a set of mould handles which I NEVER received! He had answered my emails within a day during planning and mfg stages but when I wrote to him asking about the missing handles he never answered my several attempts to contact him. I just accepted my loss and went on. Great moulds but not so great service.

[badgeredd]

Let's do a 300 grainer (or 250 grs.) too!

To whom it may concern,

See............................................... .. I'm not the only one! And now I am getting how your brain is working! Scares me too!

Edd

[357maximum]

[BABore]

Soon to be realized.

[357maximum]

LOOKING GOOD BRUCE.THANKS FOR POKIN YOUR HEAD IN ans posting the eye candy.........................THE WHELEN and The MARLIN sit here in eager anticipation.

[223tenx]

Guys,
FYI. I pm'd Red River Rick and he will make an adjustable wgt. .351 single cav. pp mold for ~$180 Canadian shipped. If I did the conversion correctly, that's about $165 USD.