Why not make your own jackets?

[peterthevet]

You guys may be interested in this link........scroll down page till you see The Bullet Factory pics and check out contents . http://people.aapt.net.au/~nelltash5...2002/index.htm This Aussie made his own bullet forming gear from scavenged material ........very interesting. Cheers Peter

[deltaenterprizes]

Fantastic videos!

[barryjyoung]

You guys may be interested in this link........scroll down page till you see The Bullet Factory pics and check out contents . http://people.aapt.net.au/~nelltash5...2002/index.htm This Aussie made his own bullet forming gear from scavenged material ........very interesting. Cheers Peter

Thank you for sharing this site. There were some great vids there.

I especially liked the video of the cup forming operation.

Thanks again

Barry

[barryjyoung]

I have to go to China for a few weeks to teach a class in October. A lot of time is being spent right now getting ready for that trip and making the class from scratch. When I get back my life will be much less hectic and I will then be able to devote a lot more time to this hobby. I will collect all the necessary tools this summer and start making tooling in the fall/winter. Then there will be a lot to show on this thread.

The lathe I have is too small. I will be turning it into a CNC machine as soon as I get a larger one in August. My homemade CNC mill is not rigid enough to run steel so I will need to buy a Bridgeport type mill for making tooling. I have no punchpress so that will all be new. I also need to pick up a small surface grinder.

My thanks to Bohica2Xo. B has educated me about punch presses and cupping in particular. Before I met him I was planning on buying new Corbin presses and dies. Now I am going to use a punch press.

Thanks to deltaenterprises too, your contributions have been excellent.

Barry

[deltaenterprizes]

Always glad to help out when ever I can!

[Bluehawk1]

Ok...now I'm curious. Other then the materials needed for primers...cup...anvil...foil...why is the learning curve steep? (chemical composition??)

[Bluehawk1]

I would love to make my own jacketd bullets but the cost seems so far out there...it's not anything I can afford.
I guess I'll have to stick to bullet casting...been doing that for over 20 years!

[barryjyoung]

Ok...now I'm curious. Other then the materials needed for primers...cup...anvil...foil...why is the learning curve steep? (chemical composition??)

I think it was best explained on another site. It isn't the cups or the anvils, that is the easy part. The steepness of the learning curve is caused by being regularly blown up. The priming compounds are not like powders that burn at a controlled rate, they are actually explosives and are controlled as explosives by our good friends at BATFE. They should be too because the only way to learn to make them is to try and try and try until eventually something goes wrong and the whole place goes up into the air with a big boom. This is how primer manufacturers learn what NOT to do. The learning curve on primer manufacturing is pockmarked with horrendous accidents and other learning opportunities. That is why I don't want to learn to make primers.

Barry

[barryjyoung]

I would love to make my own jacketd bullets but the cost seems so far out there...it's not anything I can afford.
I guess I'll have to stick to bullet casting...been doing that for over 20 years!

Yes, it is way too expensive to buy the stuff to make your own jackets. But, if you bought the dies from CH-4D for $127 and a bucket of jackets from Berger it would not be too expensive. It only really gets spendy when you:

A. Want to make your own jackets from copper sheet.
B. Want to make your own copper sheet from copper ore.
C. Want to mine your own copper ore from your own open pit copper mine in Montana.
D. Want to build your own copper mining equipment from scratch in the name of self sufficiency.

I just want to learn how to make jackets because I am fascinated with the process. This is a really dumb reason but it is the best one I have come up with. Being less than completely unreasonable I have decided to just buy the copper strips. This is my consolation to convenience. I would be miles and miles ahead to simply buy bullets from Sierra or Hornady or anybody else. No doubt about it.

If anybody sees any plots of land for sale in Montana large enough to open a small open pit copper mine please keep it to yourselves, I am in enough trouble already.

Thank you.

Barry

[Jim_Fleming]

Barry, for what it's worth, you've got at least one reader that does understand and agree with your point. (to a point! LOL!) I too like all of my fingers and what's left of my nine (09) toes just exactly where they are...

Anyway, the thing I'm getting out of this thread, is that jackets are pretty difficult to make in just a couple of steps.

Remember when you load that coppery gem into that rifle or pistol brass you're NOT going to want to see or tolerate anything that's not as smooth as a mirror. No wrinkles or puckers or dent's or whatever... For one thing wrinkled slugs just ain't gonna fly as good as unwrinkled ones will and do.

Copper is a heckuva lot tougher'n lead, hence MUCH higher drawing/swaging pressures.

That being said, I do like the idea of taking old fashioned house or barn roofing and converting them into coppery jewels of accuracy and precision.

I'd like to do it too, but the problem is an economic one. I don't have the time or money left to make before I retire to acquire the dies I'd need, but it's possible, if I ever hit the lottery, that I'll just say to the dickens with working for someone else, and re-open my old business name, "Blue Pill Specials!" making and selling slugs of all diameters, weight and length combinations possible, and sell my "Specials" at about 5% above costs, just to thoroughly annoy the people that oppose our 2nd Admendment Rights.

[techlava]

There got to be simpler way, like inserting the right diameter section of a thin wall tube with semi closed end in a mold cavity and pour.

[Red River Rick]

There got to be simpler way, like inserting the right diameter section of a thin wall tube with semi closed end in a mold cavity and pour.

That's been done. Actually, there has been moulds made to do this, they weren't very popular. The major problem is there is no consistancy and after one casting session, your fingers will be so burnt from trying to get the inserts/jackets into the mould, you'll scrap the idea.

RRR

[techlava]

Thanks.
We used to insert metal parts in plastic injection molding with great consistency over millions of parts. I think you need a gig to insert the copper sleeve, keep temperature and pressure constant to get reliable result.

[scrapcan]

Barry,

you can use the thought process that you will start to supply others in a market with limited production and limited supply as a reason if you need it. Make a size that is useable by some of us here and maybe it will help to pay you to play.

[7of7]

Jackets are not easily done in a couple of steps,... I think it is at least four depending upon the caliber you need...
I am currently making 30 cal 150 gr rebated boat tail bullets with an 8-S ogive profile. They look really good. Looking forward to this weekend, I will get to see how well they fly out to around 500 yards...
I am also making a 3/4-E point 110 and 130 grain for my 30-30 and 30 carbine. Even trying out some rebated boat tails on these too...

I really enjoy doing this, and it is a challenge to keep things consistant throughout the process so the results are the same.

I forgot, I am also doing some bonded core bullets in the 150 grain weight....

Now I have to go cleam my garage again so I can continue relaxing...

Barry, we got to get together...

[Jim_Fleming]

Guys, please keep us posted on your successes... OK?

We're all looking forward to you guys having good luck.

The .30 copper pills sound sweet...

[barryjyoung]

Barry, we got to get together...

I agree, We need to meet. Right now is not the best time though. Currently my busy schedule precludes my doing anything at all. I am working full time, creating an online class out of thin air for use in China, taking three classes myself, trying to get my workshop arranged, overhauling my new used 10x36 Atlas lathe completely and I also have guests coming the next two weeks in a row. After that I will be free. Everything except the garage and lathe projects will be finished by August 1. Let's plan on some time in August.

Barry

[barryjyoung]

Even though I am busy I have been working on an idea in my few spare thought moments. The idea is for jacket redrawing dies (the dies that are used after the blanking and drawing die using hardened drill bushings. This is probably going to go nowhere because it is probably just as easy to make the whole die as it is to make a die body that accepts drill bushings as inserts. I do not know yet. Still don't even have a punch press, but I will.

I have learned that the "cupping die" that some of us referred to on this thread is actually called a drawing die. This drawing die is followed by a series of redrawing dies that reduce the cup to the diameter we are looking for and also increase its length.

So first I will make jackets, then proceed to making lead wire, then cores, then jacketed bullets. This will all happen right after I finish all of the tasks whined about to 7of7 in the last post.

I found a surface grinder for 300-400 bucks but the fellow is not quite ready to sell it.

The lathe I just got is a 1937 vintage Atlas model TH54. It has a ten inch swing and will turn a part 36 inches long between centers. This is big enough for anything I will do in gunsmithing or bulletmaking. It also has a power crossfeed for facing which was a big deal. Larger stuff can be done on the lathes at work if I have to. I have decided not to buy a Bridgeport milling machine. The CNC mill I made works fine for most things and I have 6 Bridgeports and a small horizontal boring mill at work if I need something more stout or need to work on harder steel. This lathe makes the 9X20 Jet brand taiwanese lathe that it is replacing look quite small by comparison. I will move the digital readout, Aloris type tool post and the oversize chucks I fitted to the 9x20 over to the Atlas. These mods should make the Atlas a pretty efficient work platform.

So I still need a punch press and need to get my shop setup. Then I can think about making dies for making jackets. If later on I see the need to put a more rigid mill in my shop it will be a jig borer rather than a milling machine. They are far more accurate and don't cost any more on ebay, usually less.

I looked at a much larger lathe on Saturday before buying the Atlas on Sunday. It was a 20 inch swing lathe with a 14 FOOT long bed. The problem was not the size, the problem was the clunkiness of the controls on a lathe that big. It is hard to do precision work on a lathe that has a 600 pound carriage. About the time you get the thing moving it is time to stop and the inertia on a big casting says otherwise. I paid almost twice as much for a smaller lathe but feel it will do better work for my needs.

Barry

[barryjyoung]

Thursday is the last day of school, I have to teach a half day and then I am off on a cross country trip to gather machine tools.

I have located an Atlas 7 inch shaper as well as an Atlas horizontal milling machine. I will pick those up on Friday morning. Saturday morning an Atlas 12 inch lathe is arriving at my house.

This means that the Jet 9x20 lathe and the Atlas 10 inch lathe will be for sale next week. Both are excellent machines but I only need the 12 inch Atlas, until I find a 16 inch Monarch that is.

Now all I need to do is find a punch press closer than the East Coast. If anybody sees one I am looking for a 5 to 10 ton OBI punch press. I have two lathes for trading stock.

Thanks

Barry

[mac0083]

Welcome back BarryJ. I've been reading this thread with excitement and have been anticipating your return.

I've been seriously thinking about getting the swaging equipment from Corbins, but the dies to turn copper tubing into jackets is about $500 !!! Then there is the Swaging press @ another few hundred and then the lead swaging dies.... oh why do I even bother getting my hopes up...

I just want to make bullets that look like they came from the factory from scrap copper tubing that I have laying around. It should be saving me money!