Felix Lube - the Short Version

[ph4570]

I had everything I needed but Ivory soap. I did have some sodium stearate. I could not get the stearate to melt. I cooked and cooked then gave up and dumped the oils.

Next day I bit the boolit and forked out $1.69 for a three bar pack of Ivory soap. That session went well. I did forget to do my experiment of adding a little lavender oil at the very end. However, I still have about a sticks worth in the cookpot so I will dope that with a few drops.

Here is a pic of the results of the 1st successful batch. I put lube filled PVC pipes in the freezer for 30 min to an hour. Then I took a wooden dowel, started it in the pipe, held onto the pipe and popped the dowel on a hard surface. The lube stick popped right out.

[ph4570]

1st batch update:

I re-melted what was left in the pot. Then added 10 drops of lavender oil. Poured 2 more sticks, cooled in the freezer and popped them out of the PVC pipes. They do indeed smell nicely of lavender. Susan will enjoy that whilst she lubes and sizes boolits for her 38-55 Winny.

[ph4570]

utk,

Thanks for the info. Perhaps I'll use a thermometer the next time. However, the second try with Ivory turned out well and I have 2.85 bars left from the $1.69 investment. Guess I'll save the stearate for Susan's soap making.

[geargnasher]

I had everything I needed but Ivory soap. I did have some sodium stearate. I could not get the stearate to melt. I cooked and cooked then gave up and dumped the oils.

Next day I bit the boolit and forked out $1.69 for a three bar pack of Ivory soap. That session went well. I did forget to do my experiment of adding a little lavender oil at the very end. However, I still have about a sticks worth in the cookpot so I will dope that with a few drops.

Here is a pic of the results of the 1st successful batch. I put lube filled PVC pipes in the freezer for 30 min to an hour. Then I took a wooden dowel, started it in the pipe, held onto the pipe and popped the dowel on a hard surface. The lube stick popped right out.

Man! $1.69? You got ripped off! I only paid 99 cents +tax for my three bars (and I think those were mostly water, judging by the foam).

Thanks for posting the pic, I have a better visualization of what I've read about making hollow stick lube moulds. I still melt and pour directly in the sizer, but maybe I'll try the sticks since I can make the the CORRECT size, not the size Lyman and others make them!

Let us know how the lavender oil smells when shot versus plain ol' Felix Lube.

Gear

Gear

[ph4570]

For the enquiring minds -----


Well, YES, the lavender scent remained. Each firing provide a faint whiff of lavender.

[geargnasher]

For the enquiring minds -----


Well, YES, the lavender scent remained. Each firing provide a faint whiff of lavender.

HA! I bet you got some funny looks at the range if anyone else was around

Thanks for getting back with us on that. I figured the lavender wouldn't survive the odor of the Lube itself even if it did survive cooking, but this is why we try things. I think I'll try clove oil in the spirit of the Samurai...

Gear

[ph4570]

I put the lavender oil in after the cooking with the pan off the heat. Then the brew was poured into the molds.

[wolfman]

Found this info on lanolin oil. Looks like it should work???

Liquid Lanolin Oil is produced from lanolin that is subjected to low temperature fractional crystallization to isolate the liquid esters of regular anhydrous lanolin. Lanolin oil is much easier to work with than anhydrous lanolin due its lower viscosity. It can be used in formulations where lanolin is called for but it provides a lighter texture with less drag.

Wonder if the Lanolin Oil would be the way to go for a pan lube since it needs to be a little softer?

[geargnasher]

Wonder if the Lanolin Oil would be the way to go for a pan lube since it needs to be a little softer?

I've found that if you already made some and you want it softer, add a little precooked mineral/castor oil to your remelted lube to dilute the beeswax some, then add lanonlin back in half the amount as the mineral/castor to restore the proportion. I've used both the oil form (from the hippie store) and Lansinoh brand nipple cream (pure paste) and I couldn't tell much difference in consistency all else being the same. I never tried anhydrous due to local availability/expense because the others worked great for me.

One thing's for sure, the lube isn't really very sticky until you add lanolin, then you really have a bear of a time cleaning the stuff off your tools!

Gear

[joel0407]

Note to self and others. Dont spill this stuff in the kitchen. The more you clean the further it will spread. Especially if you modify the mix and it comes out blue.

[wolfman]

Just finished cooking up a batch of base, and want to make sure what I have is good before I add any bees wax or lanolin.

Heated 16 oz mineral oil to smoking, added 8 oz castor oil, then gradually mixed in 8 tablespoons of grated Ivory soap.

First question: Is this mess supposed to foam ,, and I mean "REALLY FOAM" up when you add the Ivory ??????

Finally got the Ivory added, and after cooking for what seemed forever, finally got the foam to go away. (Found that letting it cool, mixing the foam in while cold, then heating it back up did the trick), ended up with something that is the consistency of not quite set up jello. Sorta of clumpy like the jello that has set up, then been stirred to break it apart again.

Am I good to go? or do I need to dump it and start over??

[joel0407]

Just finished cooking up a batch of base, and want to make sure what I have is good before I add any bees wax or lanolin.

Heated 16 oz mineral oil to smoking, added 8 oz castor oil, then gradually mixed in 8 tablespoons of grated Ivory soap.

First question: Is this mess supposed to foam ,, and I mean "REALLY FOAM" up when you add the Ivory ??????

Finally got the Ivory added, and after cooking for what seemed forever, finally got the foam to go away. (Found that letting it cool, mixing the foam in while cold, then heating it back up did the trick), ended up with something that is the consistency of not quite set up jello. Sorta of clumpy like the jello that has set up, then been stirred to break it apart again.

Am I good to go? or do I need to dump it and start over??

Dont know about the soap but it doesn't when you use stearic acid. Apparently the soap contains water though.

[sundog]

oils should have been heated/stirred together at one time. what you have might still work.

[wolfman]

oils should have been heated/stirred together at one time. what you have might still work.

They were, but the mixture was all fomy when I got done adding the soap. After it cooled, I noticed there was a thin layer of cold foam on top of the oil mix, so I stirred it, heated it back up, and no more foam.

But no one has answered my main question:
What is the consistancy of the mix "supposed' to be? Mine is sort of like Jello that has set up, then been stirred. Not firm, but not runny either.

[sundog]

Sounds to me like a lot of soap, but that's okay. Foamy is okay. I did a batch like that a long time ago and what it will do is keep the oil in the loob and not let it leak. GO FOR IT, and report back!

[geargnasher]

Ok, Wolfman, you're on the right track. I'm no expert, but I've made quite a few successful batches and this is my experience. When you use fresh, new Ivory, it is loaded with water and foams like crazy. It should cook down and form a clear, viscous liquid that quickly turns gelatinous at somewhere around 180* and more or less coagulates at room temp. 8 tsp grated soap sounds about right for your 8 tsp castor and 16 tsp mineral. Any more and you'll get clear lumps that won't dissolve.

The key, which so often gets overlooked no matter how many times Felix reiterates, is to cook the castor/mineral oils at 300* for 30 minutes or cooler/longer BEFORE adding soap. The castor must be cooked until it polymerizes or it will sweat out of the finished lube. Trust me, it will. I usually cook the oils for 40 minutes, add soap, increase heat to 325* and cook for another 15-20 minutes stirring constantly just to make sure (the smoking point of the oils raises when the soap is added, and you need all the heat you can get to melt the soap completely).

Then add beeswax, stir, cool, add lanolin, pour into muffin tin to make lube ingots to be melted later in microwave and poured into lubrisizer.

Or however you do it.

Gear

[wolfman]

Ok, Wolfman, you're on the right track. I'm no expert, but I've made quite a few successful batches and this is my experience. When you use fresh, new Ivory, it is loaded with water and foams like crazy. It should cook down and form a clear, viscous liquid that quickly turns gelatinous at somewhere around 180* and more or less coagulates at room temp. 8 tsp grated soap sounds about right for your 8 tsp castor and 16 tsp mineral. Any more and you'll get clear lumps that won't dissolve.

The key, which so often gets overlooked no matter how many times Felix reiterates, is to cook the castor/mineral oils at 300* for 30 minutes or cooler/longer BEFORE adding soap. The castor must be cooked until it polymerizes or it will sweat out of the finished lube. Trust me, it will. I usually cook the oils for 40 minutes, add soap, increase heat to 325* and cook for another 15-20 minutes stirring constantly just to make sure (the smoking point of the oils raises when the soap is added, and you need all the heat you can get to melt the soap completely).

Then add beeswax, stir, cool, add lanolin, pour into muffin tin to make lube ingots to be melted later in microwave and poured into lubrisizer.

Or however you do it.

Gear

Thanks !! This info helps a lot. For new lube chemists like myself, it would help a lot, if the part I put in bold, was added to the text of the origional recipe on the first page. Sometimes us newbies need the "why" as much if not more than the "how"

[geargnasher]

Wolfman, it's really all there if you dig through two websites (this entire thread + the original development thread at castpics.net).

Here's some more helpful info I've found within the threads, and a couple of my own unqualified tips YMMV!!!:

1) A 3.5" x 3.5" x 1" chunk of beeswax weighs about 7-8 ounces depending on the wax. Just say 8 oz. is close enough for a basic batch.

2) Cook up a quantity of Castor/mineral oil and store it as a single ingredient for future lube-making. Reason for this is that you will lose up to 25% of the oil volume by the time you get it cooked sufficiently and this affects the final composition. Precook the oils, then measure the amount called for in the original recipe (3tbs. total for std. batch), melt in the soap...... etc. I've made the lube several times with only 2-1/4 tbs. total cooked oils (3tbs. being what I started with) and it is usually too hard.

3) If your soap leaves clear lumps that won't dissolve no matter what, then the mixure is fully saturated and you can strain the hot mixture though a paper/mesh disposable paint strainer to get the lumps out before adding wax.

4) The oil/soap/wax mixture begins to "freeze" at about 150*, this is the point you add the lanolin and stir in thoroughly or the lanolin will smoke. Once in the mixture, the lanolin is somewhat protected from heat by the other ingredients, so you don't have to worry about overheating it when remelting in the future. (heat just enough to melt, you don't need to "recook" it again).

5) The most important hidden tidbit I found was in the castpics.net text. It is the information required if your lube isn't quite right and you need to know what to do to fix it:

"Beeswax is the base, castor oil is the real lube, lanolin makes the lube sticky, stearate glues the mess together so it does not separate into components upon cooling, carnauba wax adds the shine, and paraffin is the ultimate hardener, to be used as a last resort."

Understanding what each ingredient does is crucial for the undertaking to be effective, as we each must tweak this lube for a particular gun/lube groove type/climate/pan or lubrisizer application/velocity for it to really be worthwhile.

6) If you eliminate the castor oil, you don't have to cook the mix, just melt components together. Same thing if you don't add ANY petroleum components, you don't have to cook it. You can make the lube with jojoba oil or substitute peanut or olive oil for the mineral oil. I think the original recipe is best for high-velocity or rifle applications, but the peanut oil version works great for pistol stuff up to about 1,000fps and smells good, too. (Doesn't smell like peanuts, but adds a "woody" flavour to the smoke). I made one batch with jojoba, couldn't tell it was worth the cost.

7) There IS a learning curve to making this stuff, but once you actually start cooking it up, all the things we talked about begin to make sense, and you'll develop your own techniques. Like Felix said, you almost always get something that's useable, even if it's not the exact recipe. For most applications, it really isn't that critical.

8) Anhydrous lanolin is good, but lanolin "Oil" works, as does Mother's brand or Lansinoh or CVS Pharmacy or Wal-Mart brand"nipple cream". Just use some form of it to help the lube stick to the grooves.

9) Anything water-based or containing water is bad for the lube, powder, and gunbarrels.

10) A great, big thank you! is in order to the Casboolits and Castpics staff, Felix and all the others who contributed to this fascinating topic, if it hadn't been for them I probably would have been choking on Alox smoke for the rest of my life!

Gear

[wolfman]

Thanks for putting a lot of the tips in a single post. While I was getting everything together to make the lube, I have been cutting all the tips I can find and pasting them into a word doc. Where you mention just cooking the oils together, I am making my "starter" using the tips mentioned back in post 153 on page 8 where also adding the soap to the starter is mentioned. Cooked up a second batch today and this time let the oil cook for almost an hour before adding the soap. Still a lot of foam because of the water in the soap, but the finished product looks much better. Looks like my word doc is going to get a couple pages longer .

Brian

[geargnasher]

I did the same thing, but just started a page of notes, writing pertinent tips down as I went. I had to reread a lot of this stuff twice or three times, as quite a lot of good info slipped by me the first time. I'm thinking, now that I've made and tested over ten batches in this summer, that I still don't know beans about the concoction, but I do want to start a thread called "Felix lube for dummies" which would give more precise instructions, physical descriptions with pictures of what is should look like, and what it shouldn't look like at various points. Also would be notes on varations of ingredients (not all wax, castor, Ivory, lanolin are created equal!!!), cold weather formulas, high-velocity formulas, etc. and other sucessful makers can add their 2 cents, kinda like here, but starting with a more clarified illustrated recipe to begin with.

But that would take all he fun out of it for everyone, now wouldn't it?

Like they say, if it was easy everyone would do it.

Gear