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Thread: .38/44 data

  1. #21
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redneckdan View Post
    I would say the 13.0 gr load is probably 'old' 2400.
    redneckdan,
    The 13.0 gr charges are definitely a ball type powder and not the disc type that 2400 is. I have some old 2400 and it is also of a disc configuration. Based on the data that GGL kindly posted, 13/2400 would likely give velocities around 1,300 f.p.s.

    Additional testing later this week.......

    w30wcf
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    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    13.0 grs. of a Ball type powder
    Could it be AA#9? Or maybe H-108?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by redneckdan View Post
    Anyone know where I can find .38/44 reloading data? I had a copy of Mr. Venturino's article but the magazine got lost when I moved last year. thanks all ya'll

    Dan
    Dan, is that the same as a 357-44 Bain and Davis? If so Hodgdon lists loads on their website http://www.hodgdon.com/#
    Dutch

    "The future ain't what it used to be".
    -Yogi Berra.

  4. #24
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    nope. Think of it as a .38 special +P+
    Some where between here and there.....

  5. #25
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    w30wcf, Did you, by chance, mike case body expansion for the factory rounds and your HS6 handloads? It would be interesting to know if pressures were comparable.
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  6. #26
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zxcvbob View Post
    Could it be AA#9? Or maybe H-108?
    Update:
    I did try 13 grs. of Lil'Gun (WSPM primers) and velocity averaged in the mid 1200's. Based on that, AA#9 and H-108 would give higher velocities since they are faster burning.

    I then tried some discontinued W680. Interestingly 13 grs. sparked by WSPM primers averaged 1,124 f.p.s..... very close to the published 1,115 f.p.s.

    The powder used in those R-P .38 SPL H V headstamped cartridges was a non canister powder. Interestingly, W680 pretty much duplicates it.

    Treeman,
    No further expansion of the cases were found with either of the loads.

    w30wcf
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    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
    aka John Kort
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  7. #27
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    w30wcf, Were you miking heads or the expansion ring on the case body? I wouldn't expect head expansion even with heavy loads but case body expansion gives a good idea of relative pressures.
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  8. #28
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    Treeman,
    The expansion ring just forward of the web.

    w30wcf
    aka w44wcf
    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
    aka John Kort
    NRA Life Member
    .22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. Cartridge Historian

  9. #29
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    Just an update for the folks out there. I have been using 10.0gr of 2400 under a 150gr rcbs KT bullet in my model 15 4", I have been getting about 1025fps. Accuracy is excellent. Understand that this is not a plinking or practice load but rather a carry load for the times I don't feel like carting around the 629 or model 19.
    Some where between here and there.....

  10. #30
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLL View Post
    Dan:

    Here are the loading charts:

    Jerry

    Mike Venturino Handloader #240


    Brian Pearse Handloader #243


    Brian Pearse Handloader #243
    is the .38-44 keith loads you list, tried and true? ive worked up for my dan wesson mod 15 8" barrel some hot 38 loads for my gun and they are accurate. im looking for a lbt wld 180 gr mold,,,160 would work. all my loads are worked up 1/10 th grain at a time and are pressure tested. i need h-110 loads to complete my list. if you reply i would appreciate it

  11. #31
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    The load I listed was test d over a chronograph out of my 4" model 15 Average centered right around 1025 fps.

  12. #32
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    A "magnum" load using .38 Special brass that I've been shooting a lot of lately is a DEWC over 7.0 grains of WSF powder loaded to 1.36" OAL. (This is not a max load but it's close.) It won't chamber in a .38 Special because the meplat is too wide. Works great in a .357 Magnum.

    Obviously this won't be much help if you're loading for a S&W Outdoorsman, but if you want a plinking load for a .357 and you don't have much .357 brass, this is a good load. And I can fit 11 in the magazine of my Marlin carbine and they cycle just fine. I haven't tried shooting them in the carbine yet.

  13. #33
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    You guys are good on the 38-44 not many remember it at all. Recently I loaded a batch (400) 38 specials for my son in law and found 3 cases made by peters that had large pistol primer pockets cases were nickel plated could these have been 38-44 cases? They were marked 38 special.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Landric's Avatar
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    I tried 12, 12.5, and 13 grains of current Alliant 2400 with Federal SP Primers and Lyman 358429 boolits that were right at 173 grains with WW lead. Test gun was my S&W 681-3 L-frame. Results were as follows:

    12.0 grains, 1086 fps Average

    12.5 grains, 1143 fps Average

    13.0 grains, 1201 fps Average

    The 13 grain load had slightly sticky extraction, so I'm planning on sticking with the 12.5 grain load for my future .38-44 loading.

    I only tried 12.5 grains of 2400 with the Lyman 358429 Hollowpoint (which runs right at 165 grains with my WW lead), and it averaged 1176 fps out of the same gun.
    "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix

    Landric

    Honcho for NOE .38-200 Mk. I British Round Nose Group Buy

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLL View Post
    Dan:

    Here are the loading charts:

    Jerry

    Mike Venturino Handloader #240


    Brian Pearse Handloader #243


    Brian Pearse Handloader #243
    if you had known elmer keith before he died you would have his data and you could copy his notes as i did. elmer helped me a lot years and years ago. he also had loads for 200 and 210 loads for the 38-44 and i got them and they work real well with lbt wln bullets. bullet weight is critical but so is the bearing surface, both affect pressure. i have a pressure gun and barrels for every caliber in pistol and rifle i got and i have a lot. these young writers dont know nothing compared to keith and p.o.ackly. dont believe me,,,thats ok,,,only the younger ones wont listen. im old and ive been taught by the masters.

  16. #36
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    oldmantoo49:

    If you are willing to share Mr. Keith's notes on the .38-44 I would love to hear from you !
    Please drop me an email !

    Best Regards,

    Jerry

    gllewis@pasadena.edu
    S&W .38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

  17. #37
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    Higher velocity doesn't mean accuracy. So what kind of 50-yd groups are you shooting with any of those loads?

  18. #38
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    Oldmantoo49:

    Me too!!!!!!!

    I need information to reload 158gr swc to 38/44 levels for home defense. As we are not allowed to have 357 magnum revolvers (I live Down South of Rio Grande) I intend to get enough power out of my Heavy Duty. Of course, the 38/44 loads are not the type I would use in my S&W M-67, or my Colt DiamondBack or Official Police, Only to be used in my 1946 4" Heavy Duty.......................so

    "If you are willing to share Mr. Keith's notes on the .38-44 I would love to hear from you !
    Please drop me an email ! tadeus99@yahoo.com

    Best Regards,"

    tadeus
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    Last edited by tadeus; 01-22-2011 at 09:40 PM.

  19. #39
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    You could do a lot worse than 12.0 to 12.5 grains of Alliant 2400, or 11.0 grains of AA#7 or N105, or 8.5 grains of Power Pistol. (these are all max loads. Probably over max, but I'd shoot them in a .357 revolver)

  20. #40
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    I saw one good group on target talk. It was a Smith 14-6 shooting HBWC's (?), 2.7 grns Bullseye, a ragged hole at 50 yds. Can this be expected more often than not?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check