My 45 Colt load in 454 Brass

[dougader]

A few years ago I read an article in Shooting Times by Dick Metcalf called "Maximizing The 45 Colt." Dick talked about cutting down 454 brass and using it in the 45 Colt.

So I did that last year after a once-fired 45 Colt case made by Winchester split when firing a real light load (6.5 gr WW 231 under a 250 gr LRN cowboy bullet). Even with that light load I had to get a wooden dowel to pound the case out of the cylinder of my Ruger Bisley.

After that happened I got to thinking, what if I had used that case in a heavy, "Ruger-Only" type load? What kind of damage might I expect from a case failure when using rounds in the 25-30k pressure range as compared to this "puff" load in the 10-12k psi range? I never noticed the corrosion because it had started from the inside of the case and worked its way out. And this was only the 2nd loading of that brass; both had been light loads. Go figure.

So I trimmed down a few Freedom Arms 454 Casull cases to 1.2780", which is right in the middle of the Max case length and trim-to case length listed in my Speer #14 Manual. I don't figure I'll have much case stretching with a straight walled pistol case like the 454, especially when keeping loads to 25-30k psi.

Then I loaded up some rounds up with my "454 Colt" cases, as Dick Metcalf calls them.

I had previously worked up a load with once-fired Federal 45 Colt brass, an SSK style 300 gr hardcast slug, 22.0 grains WW296 powder, and CCI 350 magnum primers. I chronographed that load from a 7-1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk and got an avg velocity of 1196 fps.

So I thought I'd take it up just a notch with the CP 335 gr WLNGC bullet and the same 22.0 gr charge of WW296, and CCI 400 small rifle primers (as the 454 case takes sr primers). I figured the thicker 454 case may very well have a bit less case capacity so I knew I was probably raising pressures over my previous load on two counts: (1) increased bullet weight, and (2) less case capacity. And maybe (3) CCI 400 vs. CCI 350 primers. Although the Hodgdon data for the 335 grain bullet is MAX'd out at 23.5 grains WW296/H110.

I liked what I got. I only fired a 6 shot string from my 5-1/2" barreled Bisley, and the avg velocity was 1211 fps.

Recoil was stiff, but controllable, even with my arthritic wrists. With that kind of performance, I see no need to load hotter. No sign of high pressure, and cases fell from the cylinder easily.

[stubshaft]

Could have been bad batch of brass. I once bought some Remington nickled brass for the 45lc. One fourth of the cases split on the second firing (7.5 green dot behind 255gr cast).

[Potsy]

I've read where those with 5-shot .45 Colts use Fedral cases and take it 50K Psi.
I've loaded the same batch of Starlines with a 260 grain Keith and 21grn. of 2400 for 1225 fps (somewhere around 30k) for quite some time and never had a problem.

That ".454 Colt" Brass should last forever no harder than you'll ever push it.

Once, in one of my finer screw ups, I bought some 340 (yes, 340)grain flat points (after reading LBT data) and loaded them on top of 20 grains of 296. The flat points intruded into the case more than the LBT's, that, combined with a hot day, really spiked pressures.

I realized just because of the recoil (it was awful) that something was amiss, so I broke out the chrony. I had figured it should run 1000-1100 fps. The first round read 1398, the second 1402. I was well into 5-shot pressures and speeds with a stock ruger bisley.

For the record, the brass (Starline), fell out of the chamber and is still in use today.

There are several lessons and morals to this story, but I think everyone can figure them out.

[joedapro]

That ".454 Colt" Brass should last forever no harder than you'll ever push it.

i don't think so. you will most likely get the same life out of them as you would with 45 colt because they will split because of the belling and flaring of the case mouth.

didnt john linebaugh test federal 45 colt brass well beyond 454 pressures and find status quo?

[Potsy]

Yeah, didn't think about the case mouth.
Though I've got to say, I've had a batch of 200 starline cases that I've loaded for my .45 colts for about 8 years (admittedly, I'll only shoot 300-500 rounds a year and some have been shot more than others) and I've never split a case mouth. I've got another 100 CBC cases that I've had for 5 years, no problems yet.
But like I said, I don't shoot all that much.

[NickSS]

I have shot 45 colt brass 40 to 50 times without loosing one and I have had some cases split at the first firing. Some brass is not good from the get go. I have noticed that plated brass is more prone to failure at fewer shots than is plain brass so I do not buy any plated brass. I will pick it up for free when I find it at the range.

[dougader]

My split case was a plain brass Winchester case. I still have the other 99 that I bought with the one bad case and have loaded them several times more, all light loads with 6.5 grains WW 231. I think I just had a defective case.

I picked up 1,000 45 Colt cases from Starline a few months ago and they look good. I wont have a problem loading up the new Starline cases with 22-23 grains of WW296/H110. But after the one heavy load, I'll relegate them to light loads.

There is a noticeable difference in fired cases at 30k psi loads in 45 Colt. The 45 Colt cases swell up in the cylinder, but still fall easily from the cylinder after firing. The cut down 454 cases show little to no swelling with 30k psi loads.

[Potsy]

No doubt the .454 cases won't swell as much.
I do think that the swelling has as much to do with big chambers as thin brass.
I had a '94 trapper that would swell cases with heavy loads. Not much, just enough to notice it running through the sizer die.
I've even read of some folks not completely re-sizing their brass to give a "neck sizing" effect.
It's never been a real issue for me, so I've not fooled with it.
I think you'll like the Starline, my experience (with .45 Colt & .45-70 brass) has been very good. Wish they made .25-06, 7 Mauser, & .30-40 Krag.

[zxcvbob]

You won't want to use Starline for blackpowder loads or for light "cowboy" loads. It doesn't expand enough to seal the chamber. I use Starline for moderate to hot loads, and Winchester for my BP loads.

I wonder how a 5-shot cylinder would work in a new Vaquero... Should be like a Freedom Arms but with a transfer bar so you can carry 5 instead of just 4. A lot lighter and handier than my 7.5" Bisley.

[mtgrs737]

You won't want to use Starline for blackpowder loads or for light "cowboy" loads. It doesn't expand enough to seal the chamber. I use Starline for moderate to hot loads, and Winchester for my BP loads.

I wonder how a 5-shot cylinder would work in a new Vaquero... Should be like a Freedom Arms but with a transfer bar so you can carry 5 instead of just 4. A lot lighter and handier than my 7.5" Bisley.

I was wondering about that too, until I thought it. Going to a five shot cylinder would put more metal between chambers, but none from the outside edge of the cylinder to the chamber due to the same diameter cylinder. Now if you could increase the cylinder dia. and going with the five shot configuration then you would gain strength if the frame would take the stress and allow the larger diameter cylinder.

[dougader]

On the 5 shot cylinder, Hamilton Bowen has converted a New Vaqeuro to a 5 shot 44 magnum so I imagine you could do something with the 45 Colt. I suppose an email to Bowen could confirm this. Of course it wouldn't handle 50k psi like 5 shot Bisleys, but maybe a 5 shot New Vaqeuro would handle 30k psi loads... good question.

IIRC, he also made a 5 shot New Vaquero in .50 GI as well. But this is a relatively low pressure round.

zxcvbob: That's what my Winchester brass has been used for all along: "light, cowboy loads."

Only my Federal and Starline brass (and then the "454 Colt" brass) has been used for heavy loads.

[zxcvbob]

was wondering about that too, until I thought it. Going to a five shot cylinder would put more metal between chambers, but none from the outside edge of the cylinder to the chamber due to the same diameter cylinder. Now if you could increase the cylinder dia. and going with the five shot configuration then you would gain strength if the frame would take the stress and allow the larger diameter cylinder.

Don't forget about the index notch on the outside of the cylinder. With an even number of chambers, the notches are lined up with chambers and weaken then considerably. With an odd number, the notches are *between* the cylinders.