Multiple use Lee Collet dies for cast??

[fiberoptik]

Ok, I'm CHEAP, I admit it. I'm still collecting my reloading stuff. I've got a Pile of .30's, and I'm thinking that maybe I could hold myself down to only 1 or 2 collet dies to use for everything. I've got: 30-30, 30-40, .308, 30-06, 7.5 Swiss, & .30 carbine. If'n the collet dies only do the neck, and the neck should be the same for all of 'em, ..............?? Let me know what all you masterminds think.

[35remington]

The Lee dies are caliber specific, in that the collet is activated when it bottoms out against the shellholder and squeezes the case neck against the decapping rod mandrel. The compression is only applied in the correct location on the case for which it was originally intended.

Using one die intended for, say, the .30-40 would result in the .30 carbine not being sized at all, and the others having sizing applied only to the top part of the neck if they are a bit short. Gotta buy more than one of them.

[Pepe Ray]

fiberoptic;
I've been into that scene for a while. If you really HAVE to, yes. One very short die and a spacer for each cartridge length. So far I haven't found a good material for making spacers.
Iron pipe? Anything that will close the gap between the S/H and bottom of die when stroke is at end.
The 30 carbine is probl'y too short. But since I've NO interest in it I haven't researched it.
Ain't this fun? Pepe Ray

[Pepe Ray]

35 Rem.
Sorry , didn't mean to contradict, exactly. But those of us with a history of frugality usually try to find a way to cut corners. Using spacers is a viable way to reduce your tool investment. As to convienience, it's not much different than a standard set up. The only thing more convienient is the Lee turret press w/a seperate turret for each ctg.

[35remington]

Pepe, I'd like to see how the multiple use is accomplished, given that the mandrel is also a decapping pin, and the decapping pin located in the flash hole centers the mandrel with the centerline of the cartridge. If you have a short die, you would also have a short collet. You would also have a short mandrel, only long enough to decap the short cartridge, extender or no.

It would seem that if you used an "extender" on the shellholder, the decapping pin would not be in the flashole of the longer case if it was used with a "short" collet die. Possibly compromises the concentric sizing the die is known for, increasing bullet runout?

I have also found that the mandrel that is sized appropriately for, say, .308 would not give enough sizing for the .30-30 to give adequate bullet tension. Usually, the mandrels are provided a little on the large side, and may need polishing down for jacketed bullets. Sometimes they're fine as issued for cast. But in the case of the .30-30, the mandrel provided is more correct for the thin walled .30-30 case. Substituting a generic .30 cal. short mandrel may not work, and we're back to more than one die again. Lee also warns against reducing the mandrel size more than a thousandth or so.

Speaking for myself, I would like to have the centering effect of the mandrel decapping pin thru the flashhole to ensure a concentric neck. Otherwise, I'd just forego the whole collet thing altogether and use a conventional short neck sizing die. No need for an extender there and probably just as concentric as a "free floating" mandrel in the Lee die. I also like to decap and size in the same step, and anything that would lengthen the cartridge assembly process is something I avoid. I figure the cost for another collet die is a good tradeoff to avoid taking more time in loading. I'm slow enough as it is. My time is worth more than money these days.

[versifier]

I suppose that if you wanted to make spacers, steel, brass or aluminum would work fine. One could even stack a bunch of the spacer washers that turn .38spec dies into .357mags and face off some on a lathe to custom thicknesses to fine tune. But methinks considering the amount of time involved it would be easier to buy the neck sizers, unless you had a very lightweight press like a Lee Reloader so you could feel the operation. Then maybe you could use a shorter one like the .308 and freehand it. The Lee dies won't work, like 35Rem said, but RCBS and others make non-collet necksizers that would. No way would the carbine work, though it is a great little round - buy a Lee carbide sizer for it like I did and never lube another one.

[StarMetal]

If you think about how that Lee collet die work it does have decapping rod built into it, however there is enough clearance in flash hole in relation to the decapping pin, plus the slack on the opposite end atop the die, that I doubt the purpose is to center the mandrel. Actually it doesn't make any different whether the mandrel is centered because it automatically centers itself when the collet squeezes the case neck around it, being that the mandrel isn't rigidly afixed to the die, it has some movement. Also all flash holes are not perfectly centered.

Joe

[35remington]

I'm curious about any differences in runout using a short die for a long case, and I just might try it sometime to see what happens.

Starmetal, I've got a few cases with offcenter flashholes, and I might try sizing those in the Lee die as opposed to the ones with centered flashholes, and see if there is any difference. I avoided using them in the Lee die for the very reason that they were off center, but never actually measured any for runout, just avoided using them. I need to give it a try and see if the offcenter biases things.

Seems reasonable that it would, but you never know until you've measured it.

[StarMetal]

35remington,

Would be interesting to know if you can get it in the die. Also you know there is slack in the shellholder to the case rim also. Those collet dies don't really grab the body of the case. Lots of slack everywhere.

I was thinking they say not to polished the mandrel down beyond certain size. I wonder if that is because when the collet is squeezed together that the slots between the fingers of the collet limit how far then can squeeze down too?

Joe

[35remington]

Yeah, the collet reduction thing sounds very plausible. I also think they're worried that somehow you'll reduce the mandrel so it's irregular in shape, or has steps in it when you applied too much pressure in one area than another, somehow screwing up uniform tension throughout the case neck. I suppose the more you remove the greater the chance that might happen.

Or something like that.

Now I gotta figure out what I did with those off center cases.

[Pepe Ray]

Sorry Ya'll;
I didn't realize we were talking bench rest techniques. Thought the question was based on a desire for economy.
Ten miles to the P.O., gasoline at 2.30$+/- (currently) and a social security check reduced by various living expenses, I pretty much rely on Yankee ingenuity for my hobbies.
BTW, 35 Rem, where do you get cases w/centered flash holes? I'm outa here,
Pepe Ray

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have often thought that you could use one die for lots and save, but it isn't set up that way generally. The Hornady new dimension dies are a case in point. Their boolit seaters are virtually the same, just need adjusting. But the clincher is, the loose dies are about the same price as a two die set, so it ain't worth it generally speaking. I'm in theprocess it would seem of converting to Lee Deluxe dies sets, they have it all, collet neck sizer, fls, etc.

[35remington]

Pepe, I figured the collet dies were being used for greater precision. Otherwise I woulda just suggested the conventional neck dies right off the bat. I guess we weren't approaching the question from the same direction. It happens.

[fiberoptik]

Not precision, but cost of having a collet die for each & every thirty cal. minus the carbine. If they all get neck sized, and they all take the same size bullet, then we're only bothering with the neck part of the case anyways, right?

[versifier]

Lots of reloaders get their rifles with obsolete chamberings up and running by necksizing with a die for a different cartridge of the same caliber. The idea is workable within certain limits. Like, for instance, a .30-30 die is shorter than a .308, but the body diameter of the .308 is too large to fit in the .30-30 die. No go there. The thinner -06 case will go into the .308 die. No problem. You'll have to take it case by case and figure out what will work and what won't. There is no "universal" die that will work, unless you maybe take a .300 mag NS die and shorten it radically. That case is fatter than most and if shortened would provide body clearance for most other .30cal cases.

[Herb in Pa]

There is no "universal" die that will work, unless you maybe take a .300 mag NS die and shorten it radically. That case is fatter than most and if shortened would provide body clearance for most other .30cal cases.

Hornady produces neck sizing dies for 30 caliber, there is a regular and a short. They work on the same principal as a universal decapping die with a die body large enough in diameter to accomodate any 30 caliber case. I had one of the regulars and cut it down to short configuration for my 7.62X39 cases........in case you want to try this have a carbide milling head handy for the final cleanup. HSS literally won't cut it!

[drinks]

You can do most anything with the collet resizing dies AND the factory crimp [also collet type] dies, just get one big enough for the largest case in the caliber you are using and make spacers, even washer stacks will do, just make sure the die is working on the correct place on the case.
You may have to raise the case up or down so the ram actuates the collet die at the right place, but it will work.
Don