38-55 Powder Granulation?

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Howdy all,

I have been loading my 38-55 with 3f Goex, New Goex Granulation Chart say's 1f. What do you use?

Thanks,

Sam

[NickSS]

I have tested my C Sharps 1885 high wall with several different powders and bullets to find a good target load. At least my rifle likes FFG over FFFG. FG works about as well as FFG but gives lower velocity. So I use FFG GOEX in my rifle. I load several different bullets depending upon range I will be shooting. Mostly I use the lyman 250 gr flat point but for longer ranges I use an NEI 310 gr round nose slug.

[JeffinNZ]

You don't list 1.5Fg. My .38-303 LOVES Swiss 1.5Fg.

[John Boy]

Sam, I use FFg - FFFg and Swiss 1.5. It's whatever your rifle likes best.
This is on the home page at Goex:

GRANULATIONS APPLICATIONS
GOEX Cannon ... Cannon
GOEX Fg ... Musket
GOEX FFg ... Rifle
GOEX FFFg ... Pistol
GOEX FFFFg ... Priming Only
GOEX Cartridge ... Cartridge Rifles

Maybe the sales are slow on Fg!

[cajun shooter]

+1 on John Boys Post. We all know that when it comes to BP there are no hard and fast rules. Paul Matthews points that out in his book, Shooting the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle. You can have 10 shooters on the line and they all do something different. I will add that to copy what a good shooter does though is not a bad idea. John Boy is one that I ask on many different occasions. Each lot of BP can make a difference. Later David

[John Boy]

Here's my thoughts on which granulation should be used:
1. FFFFg - pan powder in a flintlock only
2. As for Fg - FFg or FFFg in a cartridge reload:
* How well does it burn?
* What velocity do I want to achieve for the distance I'm loading the round for. For any distance beyond 500m - I like to have the velocity at 1200fps or as close as the load will bear with proper compression depending on the powder make based on the weight of the bullet being used.

Here's some velocities:
38-55 ... 332gr ... 42gr FFg ... 1087fps
38-55 ... 292gr ... 43.5 FFg ... 1189fps
45-70 ... 535gr ... 68 FFFg ... 1218fps
45-70 ... 482gr ... 75gr Swiss #2 ... 1285fps
45-70 ... 492gr ... 70gr FFFg ... 1241fps
50-70 ... 457gr ... 70gr Skirmish Fg ... 1043fps
50-70 ... 457gr ... 70gr Express FFg ... 1222fps

And guess what? Some of the lower velocity recipes shot better than the higher ones past 500m with the bullet being used. But when your shooting 1000yds ... the closer to 1200 fps, I find they have better accuracy because the bullets are less in the subsonic range out at that distance.

So... again, it's what your rifle likes best. And as for pressure concerns - none of these velocities are even close to being over pressure ... even with the heavier bullets

Granulation sieve sizes are based on the number of grains of powder per 100 cubic cc's. Small granualation - more grains per cubic cc

[John Boy]

Let me drift back to Goex's new Loading Charts and specifically Fg in 38-55.
I just got off the phone with Mike Hodgdon (Birdshot) at 1-800-622-4366 x110. Asked him about the new Charts and using Fg in a 38-55. He says he has been using Fg in his 38-55 recipes with very good results, specifically Express Fg. Guess I'll have to try some and see what it does.

Also, he informed me that Hodgdon has been working on original gunpowder loading data even back in the era when they weren't a Black Powder company. That means back into the '70's. So I have to presume that all the data they have in the Charts has been tested at one time or another and is not just a SWAG. And they have data for calibers that I never have seen BP data for. The one that caught my eye was 38 Colt Police Positive cause I have one ... new in the box but will never be tested with BP, plus other calibers that I will never own. Have to admit, the Charts are extensive!

[boommer]

I thought that Hodgdon just bought Goex and Hodgdon only produced fake black up to now. maybe I'm wrong here? I load 1.5 in 38-55 with a 4f kicker and no compression to slight,to make COL. Cartridge Goex with a 4f kicker also was good load but it liked compression 1/4"worked great. Chart wise in black powder I guess it would be only good for basics because there are too many variables.

[August]

I don't know about others, but I got some wicked fouling using 3F Shutzen in the 38-55.

[Boz330]

I will add that to copy what a good shooter does though is not a bad idea. John Boy is one that I ask on many different occasions. Each lot of BP can make a difference. Later David[/QUOTE]

Life ain't long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, why not limit the possibilities from someone elses experiences. I haven't seen as much difference in lots with the Swiss BP, but I've only shot 3 different lots and haven't changed a thing.

Bob

[Jbar4Ranch]

Goex CTG works very well in my H&R .38-55.

[Baja_Traveler]

Swiss 1.5 here too...

[Hogpost]

Swiss FFFG. I hunt with my '94 Winchester, and want max velocity & max consistency with min fouling.
Do not have a chrony, so can only tell you it works better for me than anything else I've tried over many years.

[DEVERS454]

I had really good luck with both goex express FFg and pyrodex select FFg granulations.

I tried FFFg of goex and goex select and although velocity was higher, SD was erratic and accuracy went down. I tried an over powder card and it helped, but, I had to drop the charge down and that negated the velocity increases out of my 24" 1894.

My marlin liked FFFg but I found that having a softer alloy (30:1) was more important.

In the end I kelp the winchester and sold the marlin and just kept using FFg.

[Yellowhouse]

Kik Fg.

[Mike Brooks]

KIK 2Fg

[Bad Ass Wallace]

You have to go to basics, my 38/55 has the fast twist 1:12 barrel and will stabilise very heavy projectiles. My load with long Starline brass is 50gns Swiss No.2 (FFFG)and a 374gn Paul Jones Creedmoor boolit. This combination does something very strange; the large boolit seems to create a lot of back pressure, which in turn makes the powder burn super clean.

I first noticed this in my 50/90 when changing from a 510gn boolit to a 650 gn Paul Jones Creedmoor, bigger boolit, more chamber pressure, more complete burning of the powder! BTW my standard load for the big 50 is 105gns FG!

[Hogpost]

Mr. Wallace, sir, the amount of compression you use may be contributing to the effect;
how much compression are you using in that 38-55 load?
For max velocity, I often use the 225 grn SAECO with 50 grains Swiss FFFG,
and it seems to me I'm compressing it pretty heavily to reach standard OAL in the long case.
You've got to be squeezing it a whole lot more.
Perhaps I'm a wuss; but then again I'm here to learn. Do tell!

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The big 375gn boolit has 6 driving bands and only 3 are seated into the case, so there is very little compression. The nose is bore riding and the first 3 bands are rifling engraved at loading. My powder compression die is set to 0.030". Powder is dispensed to the case via a 26"drop tube.

The long Starline brass once fireformed will hold approx 4 gns more powder than the short case.

[Jeff Houck]

[QUOTE=Bad *** Wallace;2543175]The big 375gn boolit has 6 driving bands and only 3 are seated into the case, so there is very little compression. The nose is bore riding and the first 3 bands are rifling engraved at loading. My powder compression die is set to 0.030". Powder is dispensed to the case via a 26"drop tube.

The long Starline brass once fireformed will hold approx 4 gns more powder than the short case.



What velocity are you getting with your 50gr. charge of Swiss, was it 3F?
Any idea of how low in velocity you can go and still have a stable bullet?
Thanks, Jeff Houck