Rust Bluing?

[EMC45]

Anyone have a cheap down and dirty rust blue recipe? I don't want eyelash of newt, and unicorn hair recipes. Something simple please. Locally obtainable ingredients.

[waksupi]

As cheap as it is, I would get Laurel Mountain Forge.

[stubshaft]

I'm with Waksupi,
Laurel Mountain Forge products work well. If you want "cheap, down and dirty" use urine. The difference between Browning solutions and Rust Blueing is that you have to boil the part between cardings (removing the rust using wire brushes). Urine was a common browning solution.

[Ron B.]

Hello Guys,
EMC45, I hope you don't mind my asking a relevant question?

Just this week, I received a 50-70 New York Rolling Block I'd found on the Internet. The price was right; and thankfully the rifle is in really good condition. The problem is, when I tore the rifle down for inspection, removing the forearm the metal was white. The exterior metal iappears original; but in spots is mottled rust color. I suspect someone did a rust bluing job on the rifle. The strange thing is, the metal beneath the forearm shows no grind/sand marks. What marks are there run parallel with the barrel. What are your thoughts? I can do photos; if needed.

Thanks,
GRB

[EMC45]

GRB,
Sounds like it was "browned" at one point in it's life.

[waksupi]

Hello Guys,
EMC45, I hope you don't mind my asking a relevant question?

Just this week, I received a 50-70 New York Rolling Block I'd found on the Internet. The price was right; and thankfully the rifle is in really good condition. The problem is, when I tore the rifle down for inspection, removing the forearm the metal was white. The exterior metal iappears original; but in spots is mottled rust color. I suspect someone did a rust bluing job on the rifle. The strange thing is, the metal beneath the forearm shows no grind/sand marks. What marks are there run parallel with the barrel. What are your thoughts? I can do photos; if needed.

Thanks,
GRB

That really isn't a problem. Many old firearms were not blued, or otherwise finished, under the wood.

[shunka]

Here you are, these are from other sites.
If you want a dirt simple form of rust blue "CaptChee" uses cholorox - scroll down to the bottom of his project page here:

http://www.tradrag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=506

It you are attempting to "hot blue" a more modern piece, you might consider the following formula.
It is from an out-of print book. While it is not technically rust blue, it produces a beautiful blue finish
that is incredibly durable. Do be aware that on certain steel alloys this formula does produce a purple-ish hue, and that these chemicals attack lead and soft solders, and "devour" aluminum alloys.
A pdf of the book can be viewed here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=7Ab12fHr8y0C&pg=PA399
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"Here is one so simple it is worth anyone's trial. For this I am indebted to Don Lowery, one of my competitors here in Tucson, Arizona. This is very possibly the most practical of all blacking processes, in that it is almost foolproof; the ingredients can be obtained at low cost in nearly any town [ha! -g.c.]; and the finish is more durable than any other I have seen. In appearance and wear resistance it greatly resembles the finish used by Germany on military small arms prior to 1942.

Lye - 2 parts
Ammonium Nitrate - 1 part
Water - see below

White Ammonium Nitrate Fertilizer, 33% type

The household lye you get at any grocery store. If you want to be technical, buy sodium hydroxide (ordinary lye is approximately 94% sodium hydroxide). The ammonium nitrate you get at seed and feet stores --it is used by gardeners as a soil and plant conditioner.

Solution -- 5 pounds lye, 2 1/2 pounds ammonium nitrate, per gallon of water.

Working temperature is betwee 285* and 295* F. This solution lasts almost indefinitely, or at least for between 35 and 50 blacking jobs. Add a pound of lye every 12 or 15 jobs, and water of course as necessary. From 15 to 40 minutes in the bath are required, depending upon the bulk and hardness of the steel involved.

The only unpleasant part of using this formula is that in mixing in the ammonium nitrate, a considerable amount of gas ammonia is given off. Considerable ventilation is therefore necessary.

Lye is no problem to handle. In this formula, as in others using sodium hydroxide, the principal purpose is not to aid in coloring the metal but to raise the boiling point of the solution and thereby prevent excessive loss by boiling away of the other ingredients. In this mixture the ammonium nitrate apparently stays in the tank, and only water and a little lye are lost through boiling.

The black produced by this process is unbelieveably durable. A finished part will take a wire brush test without damage with would totally remove almost all other finishes.

To use this solution, the metal parts are degreased either by Oakite solution or washing with plain dry cleaning solvent, dried, and placed in the tank. After blacking, they are rinsed in water, either cold or warm, and dried and oiled in the regular manner."

For those of you interested in finding this book, the ISBN is 8117-0770-9. The copyright was apparently also held by Thomas G. Samworth, not Roy F. Dunlap the author.
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[6.5 mike]

Beartooth bullets web site has a write up on rust blueing. Check the article on 30-30 trapper. Good read. gun control 1ST ROUND ON TARGET.

[waksupi]

I will point out, if you are looking for lye for this project, you will need to contact a soap maker's supply. Red Devil is no longer available in the supermarket, due to it being an ingredient used in making crack, or some other type of illegal drug. The drain opener now available may have a lye content, but it also has lots of other strange stuff in it.
If you use bleach like Captchee does, you need to be aware that it can cause deep etching, if allowed to work too long.
Another good oxidizer is veterinary grade iodine. This can also cause deep etching if not watched. It is another thing that has become harder to get, once again because of illegal drug manufacturing.

[13Echo]

I think the New York Roller was finished, like the Springfield Armory version, in so called Armory Bright, that is the barrel, furniture, block and hammer are in the white and the receiver is case hardened.

Jerry Liles

[Rockydog]

If you are searching for lye you might try a Dairy Farm supply store or milking machine dealer (obviously scarce in some parts of the country). They have a product called Rubber Cleaner that is used for manual cleaning milker parts and hoses. Please be extremely careful when handling lye or lye products. I've worked as a Dairy Farm Cleaning consultant for 25 years and know the following. LYE is DANGEROUS. NEVER add water to lye. Always add the lye to the water carefully and cautiously sifting it in. DO NOT throw it all in at once. Wear rubber gloves and a face shield or, at a minimum, safety glasses. Lye can react to water very violently. In fact, it reminds you of water in a lead pot. Lye is extremey caustic and attacks wet skin and eyes, instantly causing severe caustic burns and destroying flesh as it burns. I have seen people with severe caustic burns and it's not pretty. Also be aware that heavy lye concentrations makes items in the solution very slippery. Not nice stuff, but very few bluing solutions are. At any rate be careful this stuff is dangerous! RD

[GrizzLeeBear]

Good lord, just get the Laurel Mountain Forge. Midway carries it for less than $9.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=559024

You would spend way more to round up all those ingredients, let alone the time and gas. Then you would have to worry about mixing them in the exact proportions and doing it safely.
I have used the LMF to brown a few muzzleloaders. The stuff works very well. Like Stubshaft said, only difference is you boil the parts (make sure you use distilled water) before carding to turn the red oxide into black oxide.

[leftiye]

Yup, otherwise the next time it gets wet it IS rust.

[Lee S. Forsberg]

Anyone have a cheap down and dirty rust blue recipe? I don't want eyelash of newt, and unicorn hair recipes. Something simple please. Locally obtainable ingredients.

Get a copy of The Modern Gunsmith by James V. Howe volume two page 213.
300cc Nitric Acid
240cc Hydrochloric Acid
600 gr. clean steel
Mix and use according to instruction. Works on any buleable steel used if for years.

[Parson]

Hello Guys,
EMC45, I hope you don't mind my asking a relevant question?

Just this week, I received a 50-70 New York Rolling Block I'd found on the Internet. The price was right; and thankfully the rifle is in really good condition. The problem is, when I tore the rifle down for inspection, removing the forearm the metal was white. The exterior metal iappears original; but in spots is mottled rust color. I suspect someone did a rust bluing job on the rifle. The strange thing is, the metal beneath the forearm shows no grind/sand marks. What marks are there run parallel with the barrel. What are your thoughts? I can do photos; if needed.

Thanks,
GRB

You may have a hard time believing this but there was a time when the Government ordered rifle "not to be finished". I do not recall the years but for reasons I have never understood it was the "fad" when some unit commanders had their men polish off all the bluing and see who could have the shinyest rifles. After the Civil War some Confederats told of when shooting at night they would look for the Yankees "shiney" guns in the moon light, this convinced the Army that Shiny guns were not a good idea, but back to your question. The procurment board somewhere along the line decided that if the troops were going to take the bluing off, why should we pay for it and there were a few years when the were ordered without bluing. There is a chance that yours came from the factory unblued and sometime later someone colored it without removing the wood