(I've become increasingly unhappy with Lyman in the following years, and often refer to them today as "the new Lyman." I remember the old Lyman VERY fondly and miss them. The stunt they pulled with this board was the last straw for me--I'll no longer buy anything Lyman, nor will I recommend anything Lyman. The following is my letter to them explaining why.)
To whom it concerns:
I began reloading in 1970 at my father's side and with his mentorship and guidance. During those days, we used primarily Lyman and RCBS equipment.
Some years down the road while serving in the military, a group of us continued to reload as we shot competitively in inter-service matches and competitions. We saw--and used--a lot of orange equipment. Lyman, along with other notable brands, often had a presence even at typically "closed" matches held on military installations. I always remember your brand being good to shooters and reloaders.
As a natural part of the journey of being a student of The Gun, I began casting my own bullets, or "boolits" as we call them on the home gathering site that you have recently and deliberately snubbed. Like scores before me, I began by reading your "Casting Bullets" handbook. Likes tens of thousands before me, I also relied heavily on Lyman reloading data manuals. Cast boolits and Lyman manuals went together like peas and carrots, as Forrest Gump would say.
Recently, you met a member of a place I and over 8,000 other loyal boolit casters and reloaders call home--the Cast Boolits forum. You, the Lyman brand, met this member at the 2009 Orlando SHOT show. A deal was struck for Lyman to help sponsor our forum in exchange for highly visible and direct advertising on our site. The "sponsorship" consisted of little more than the donation of a handful of items/components to be auctioned off, proceeds of which go to keep the forum financially stable.
Bear in mind that our site has over 8,000 members alone--no telling how many "lurkers" and "casual passerbys" visit the site on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Given today's political administration and the frantic rush to stockpile ammunition, I would venture that a LOT of "passerbys" come to our forum.
I further understand that one of our members had a problem with a competitor of yours and spoke his mind--as he is free to do as an American citizen and a consumer of MANY different firearms-related brands. I further understand that this conversation somehow ruffled the feathers of Lyman management.
According to a Lyman representative, you folks don't like "bully pulpits" where shooters, reloaders and boolit casters can criticize manufacturers. So, you pulled out of the deal you had made with Cast Boolits.
Long story short, the Lyman banner is no longer on the Cast Boolits site, and given the nature of how this exactly went down, there are some ruffled feathers among many members and guests of Cast Boolits from my vantage point as a mere member of the site. The message is that Lyman will not tolerate criticism, deserved or undeserved, or any brand in the shooters' world.
Uh-huh.
So now that I know Lyman has entered the realm of Political Correctness, I now understand why I write the following to you.
Put bluntly, I used to be a loyal Lyman supporter. VERY loyal. I have many of your moulds and sizing dies. My favorite, to this day, lubesizer is my cherished Lyman 45. I have a good number of your case-prep hand tools. I have used your Orange Crusher and pulled the handle hundreds of thousands of times since I first purchased it on an enlisted man's meager E-2 salary back in the 70's.
A few years ago, I noticed a change, or shift if you will, in Lyman's attitude towards customer service and customer loyalty. It became inconsistent. I had several phone calls looking for parts, and one looking for warranty assistance. For the first time in almost forty years of dealing with reloading manufacturers, I was actually challenged as to why one of YOUR components broke--a Lyman 4500 lubesizer. Never mind that I had the same exact problems with it that so many on the MidwayUSA site negatively reviewed the lubesizer in regards to. I was told "it was my fault and warranty will not cover it."
Fine. Anyone and any company can have a bad day, an off day. But I tried calling a few days later after I thought about it some. Was told the same thing by a different person on the phone.
Now I have a sour taste in my mouth. I buy a Lyman mould a year ago, and it threw bullets that were both out of round and over .003 too large. Called you up and was told I basically didn't know how to "prep my alloy" and was challenged on how exact to "Lyman Number 2" I was. I hung up in disgust and threw the mould in the garbage.
Even after that, I kept my opinion about the "new Lyman" pretty much to myself. But no longer.
After learning about how you did the owners at Cast Boolits, this was the final straw.
Since that incident, I have purchased five new moulds--not one of which came from you or was manufactured by you. I've purchased three new sizing dies. Fortunately, RCBS dies work just fine in BOTH a Lyman 45 as well as an RCBS LubeAMatic II.
In the past ten days, I've had two different families come over to my reloading shop to learn the basics of reloading. I let them use my equipment to ensure this is something they wish to pursue. Eventually, with both families, the subject of "which brands" came up. I gave glowing reviews to RCBS, Dillon, Lee and even Hornady--which has never been a favorite of mine, although I couldn't tell anyone exactly why.
When Lyman was asked about, I stated that it would be snowing in Hades and Obama would be wearing twin six-shooters and wearing his birth certificate as a necktie before I ever purchased--or recommended--ANYTHING made by Lyman.
Then I explained why. And I explained that what transpired with Cast Boolits was the final straw and that I found it indicative of the "new Lyman's" corporate culture and attitude.
I'm still a bit dumbfounded that a brand that was at the forefront of bringing boolit casting into people's homes would snub THE most popular, credible and knowledgable forum found anywhere on the world wide web. . . and for the reason(s) you did.
Not only do we cast boolits, but we also reload and we also shoot. Many of us are CBA members as well, but that forum doesn't get five percent of the traffic, members and guests that Cast Boolits does. Great folks over there, no doubt, but fact is, they don't get the casual, targeted and destination traffic that Cast Boolits does. Not by a long shot.
So, what you've done is given 8,000+ of us all the more reason to spend our money with the Red, Green and Blue brands. Their customer service is still top-shelf, as is their word and honor. The hordes of new reloaders that are being "born" each day, thanks to the political climate mean that those of us who've been rolling our own for all these years are being sought out almost DAILY for our opinions and advice on which brands to patronize. My answer will be simple: Anything but Orange.
Things have obviously changed at Lyman, and obviously not for the better. And that is truly a shame.
Honestly? I'll miss seeing the Lyman banner at Cast Boolits. It's a storied, historical brand and one can't help but think of casting when one sees the brand. But given how the parting of ways occurred, whenever I see the Lyman brand, it will now only serve to remind me that things have changed far too drastically at your company for me to patronize it further.
I do not speak for anyone at Cast Boolits other than myself. I have enjoyed the fine folks there and their hospitality and other-world knowledge and experience since 2004, when it was known by a different name. Put simply, in the world of shooting and reloading, the owners, administrators and members of Cast Boolits represent the absolute finest among the shooting and reloading population. And as proud as I am to be part of that home, I am equally disappointed in Lyman's actions regarding Cast Boolits.
With sincerest regards,
xx xxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx, xx
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Originally Posted by carpetman
