310 tool question

[BCall]

Did Lyman make some dies that were for the Tru-Line Jr presses and not for the 310? How do you tell the difference between them? I have a freind that has a few, and we wnat to make sure which one thay are for. Thanks, Billy

[ktw]

The trueline die sets were two die sets.

1) full length sizer/decapper with neck expander ball
2) DA seater/crimper


The 310 die sets were 4 or 5 die sets

1) neck sizer
2) universal decapper
3) priming chamber
4) neck expander (M type)
5) DA seater/crimper

The later 4 die version of the set combined the neck sizer and decapper into one die.

-ktw

[Green Frog]

The trueline die sets were two die sets.

1) full length sizer/decapper with neck expander ball
2) DA seater/crimper

-ktw

That is partly correct, ktw. The TLJr sets for bottleneck rifle cartridges were still made to neck size only. In addition, some of the TLJr sets (especially those for pistols) came with a separate die for expanding so that the sizer die didn't work so hard.

I think the biggest difference between TLJr and 310 die sets was that some were different lengths to make it easier to get to the neck of the cartridge case with the tool for which they were destined. I recall seeing some very short neck sizing dies designed to be used on the 310 and totally unsuited to the TLJr.

Having gone through boxes and bags of these dies, I just put the sets together by trial and error until I establish what combination gets the job at hand done as expeditiously as possible... a strategy I heartily do not recommend for the newbie who is starting from scratch!

In general, I find I can use 310 tools with the TLJr press with enough careful adjustment, but I can't always go the other way.

HTH ~ Froggie

[KCSO]

The TLJ die sets were made with a die that both sized the neck and expanded on the down stroke. The 310 dies used a case mouth expander die. It is NO fun to use a TLJ die in a 310 as the case is about impossible to pull out of the die.

[ktw]

That is partly correct, ktw.

My bad. It would not make sense for the straight walled handgun cartridges to have an expander ball, or for the bottleneck cartridges to full length size. Most of the TLines sets I have seen have been bottleneck cartridge sets.

Thanks for the correction.

Would it be safe to assume that for Trueline sets:
- all straight walled handgun cartridges were full length sizers?
- all bottleneck cartridges sets had the decapping pin mounted expander button?

-ktw

[Green Frog]

Pretty much so, ktw, but you know what happens when you "ASS-U-ME" anything, and the more I look at what Lyman did over the years, the more variable it seems to be. For instance, I got a .45-70 boxed set for the TLJr (so marked) which worked fine with my 310 since the decapper also neck sized (only) and it had a mouth belling die included as part of the set. Incidentally, I have found TLJr dies in the nice flat boxes with internal boxes for each die, and then some of the boxy deeper boxes that are more like the ones for the 310. I'd really like to find out whether the former are the earlier and the latter the earlier, but I can't find any documentation on that. Also, there were a very few rifle cartridges offered for the TLJr that had FL sizing, the M-1 Carbine comes to mind, along with the .32-20 WCF. Of course, there were also those push-through dies you used with a hammer or arbor press when you needed to FL size the bigger shells.

Every time I think that I've seen the strangest combination that could be offered, something really weird comes along and changes my frame of reference. Now I just takes 'em like I finds 'em! I'm glad to find out I'm not the only one who is still interested in using these things!

Regards,
Froggie

[BCall]

Thanks a bunch guys. I think we got them figured out, they all appear to be 310 dies. Just have to sort them. Thanks, Billy

[KCSO]

Actually the 310 dies I have for 45 acp, 38, 357, 41, 44, and 45 colt are neck sizing dies in that the sizer can not be adjusted to touch the base of the case.

[Green Frog]

KCSO, that's what exactly what my friend KTW and I were talking about, the pistol dies for the TRULINE Jr only are able to FL size... the 310 lacks the leverage (and probably the throw) to do this on all but the very smallest cartridge cases. You will find dies labeled FL xxx for whatever caliber TLJr pistol sets you are likely to encounter, but the 310 set is necessarily different.

As an aside, being an enthusiast and somewhat stubborn, I have put together several "hybrid" sets with the FL and neck size only dies both so I can use them in either tool. Most of the other dies seem compatible if they are long/short enough to adjust properly. I keep looking for a better and more elegant solution to each of my reloading challenges.

The quest continues!
Green Frog

[TAWILDCATT]

the 32/20 is a rifle/pistol cartridge.lyman made a full length die using a hammer and punch,I have one.I never had a 310 tool but do have Ideal tong tools.also 5 tru lines.I load 32/32-20 and 06 on them.with cast bullets.I like the M die.you can get the bullet started in the case.since I am loading cast,its the best way to go.

[Green Frog]

Wildcatt,

The tong tools numbered 3 & 10 became the 310 tool, so if you have worked with one of the former, you have essentially worked with the latter! As for that weird caliber called variously .32-20 and .32 WCF... it was initially designed as a small rifle caliber by Winchester for the 1892 rifle, IIRC, and then was adopted to several Colt and S&W revolvers as well as several other rifles and carbines. Anywhooo... it is regarded by most as a "pistol class" round even though it has a slight taper neck.

Back to this thread, Lyman made a 310 die set in .32-20 that neck sized only, a TruLine Jr die set with a full length sizer, and the bench-type die you mentioned that could be used with a hammer or an arbor press to full length size. As for the M-die, they were selling the equivalent of an M die with all of the 310 die sets I've ever seen, and as you say, they really make starting a cast bullet a lot more easily done! All this discussion of the 310/TLJr is getting me itchy to get mine out and use them. I just set a buddy up with a late (compound leverage) TLJr press and die set along with a bench sizer die for .32-40... maybe I can use that to scratch this itch!

Froggie