700X handgun loads .38 Spl/.357 Mag

[Dorf]

Has anyone messed around withe DuPont 700X in .38 Spl and .357 Mag? If so what is your opinion and experience ? How fast were you able to drive 150-160 gr. cast boolets? What barrel length were you using? All of course without running into excessive pressures. Any help will be greatly appreciated. TIA Stan.

[Jack Stanley]

I've used three point six grains of 700-X in a thirty-eight case with the bullet weight you describe . Accuracy was generally good , it depended on what bullet I was using . I don't know what velocity was .

Jack

[kawalekm]

HI Stan
I switched to 700X years ago because I found it cleaner than Bullseye for light loads. I load 3.0 grains of 700X with Lyman's 358395 full wadcutter. I shoot that in a six inch Ruger revolver.
Michael

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have used 700x for target loads in the S&W M52 for many years. The bullet must be seated flush with the case mouth for proper feeding. As such it is deep seated. I am using H&G #258 which is flat faced on one end and bevel based. Lube in bottom groove only. With the 700x, 2.5-2.6 grains runs the action reliably and is accurate; groups in one inch at 25 meters. Lube is 50/50 NRA formula..no leading and minimal smoke. In a longer barreled Smith M-28 revolver (6 inch) and a S&W M-14, 2.7-2.8 grains of 700x does better than the lower loading. I have not used the 700x in .357 Mag, but the longer case would need a bit more of it at least for target work. With WC bullets seated out and crimped or heavier bullets the 700x would have to be adjusted accordingly/worked up to get best results in the 38 special in relation to the gun. Same would apply to .357 according to what you are using it for or need it to do. LLS

[Dale53]

Years ago I worked with 700x in both .45 ACP and .38 Special target loads. It was accurate and burned clean. However, 700x has a tendency to bridge in powder measures and I quit using it for this purpose.

I settled on Win 231 and my next buy will be TiteGroup as it measures well and is clean burning and has a great reputation for accuracy.

Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

ive used it but not much anymore. Its not a bad powder but the problem is metering. It does not meter well. I can excuse that in a powder thats a bit slower burning like unique but when a guy is only putting 2 grains of powder in a case and its varying a half a grain thats a big difference. If your loading on a single stage press and weighting every charge it can give real good accuracy.

[smkummer]

Metering is the only issue with this powder out of a Lee auto disk. For plus P, add about .3 grains.

[Dorf]

Ok and thx to one and all. Looks like everyone is using 700X for light target work in medium to long barrels. I'm using a 2" .357 Snubbie and am trying to build up a load that will get up to a bit over 900 fps in .38 Spl brass with the 150 gr. cast swc. Since I have a nearly full 12# keg or 700X, I was hoping to find a good use for it. I have other powders available but not in the quantity of the 700X and in view of the fact that the loads will be run thru a .357, +P+ .38 Spl loads are not a problem. I can use Unique and 2400 to get the velocity range but they don't seem to burn quite as cleanly as the 700X does -- due to the short barrel? TIA Stan

[kawalekm]

Since metering problems were brought up, I thought I'd mention the habit I've developed. I load all my cartridges by measure (RCBS), but I include a certain routine to insure consistancy.

As I raise the level to it's lowest position (charge loading), I tap the handle three times to vibrate the whole measure. I then raise the lever to it highest position (charge dispensing) and tap thrice again. I always charge cases separately and inspect all charged cases at the same time under strong light. I have never yet spotted a single instance of bridging when charging powder with this stratage. Hope that will work for you.
Michael

[ebner glocken]

I've used 3.0 grains of it in a .38 case with 147gr WCs....DEWC or HBWCs. Decent accuracy but wouldn't outshoot 2.7 of bullseye or a comparable load with ww 231. I did not experience any bridging or feeding problems of any kind with 700x......if you would like to speak of 800x now that would be a different story.

Ebner

[Dorf]

Re: the "bridging problem"-- I haven't noticed any thing in that direction either. I use an old Lyman powder measure with a "knocker", charge each case and seat bullets at the same time. Also I weigh every 5th charge. No problems -- so far.

[EMC45]

Meters like crap! I've burned a bunch though. I started with 700X. The cheapest on the shelf when I started and it could be used for all the handguns I had then.

[shooting on a shoestring]

All the above is true but......I've burned a couple of pounds and found that it is not position sensitive as far as my chronograph can measure. Also, my notes show that it shot under 2" using 358156, and 358091 from my 6" Model 19, with single digit SDEVs for 5 shot group velocities, using 4.5 to 5.1 grains in .357 cases. And for .38 loads 3.4 to 4.2 grains, again single digit SDEVs, 2 inch groups.

My theory is the chunky grains that don't meter well, do ignite easy. The chronograph says the swings in powder charge don't translate into swings in velocity, and the groups don't seem to care either.

I've had much worse showings in SDEV with HS6 and HP38, which do meter evenly, but are very position sensitive.

Now days, I pretty much just burn Bullseye, Herco and 2400 in my revolvers and live happily everafter. Although I'd shoot 700-X if I found a decent deal on a jug.

[shooterg]

Shot a buncha Lee 158 tumble lubes with 3.0 grains , all loaded on a Square Deal. Usually just shoot the plate rack in the back yard, but plenty accurate enough for that ! No bridging problems - yet. Shouldna said that !

[waksupi]

subscribe

[bowhunter]

I have no problem with metering, but i do use belding and mull measures. 700x is one of the most accurate powders in my 38's and 45's acp

[35remington]

I don't doubt "tap'n and wack'n" the measure dispenses 700X or any large flake powder more uniformly......except that the Lee Pro Auto Disk I use doesn't have a knocker, it's an extra step on the Lee Classic Turret to whack by hand, and tapping the measure introduces extra variability. So I don't use any large flake powder in charges below 3.5 grains in the Lee Pro Auto Disk.

I see it as an issue with the caviity being too small for the size and shape of the flakes, primarily.

And yes, agreed, the large flake powders when so dispensed by tap'n and wack'n may have a little more variability in weight, but do indeed show minimal velocity variation, even compared to powders that meter better. I use the same argument to justify using Red Dot in the 45 ACP, but only in charges of 4 grains and above so I don't have to do the tap and whack routine. 700X, same thing.

So the powder bridging of 700X and possible squib loading is something for the new users to be aware of when loading light charges of large flake powders in some measures. Once you're aware, you can do something about it.

[Dale53]

My experience with 700X and bridging have been uniformly bad. The problem has been correctly assessed (cavities too small for the powder type) but there is one other factor. I put 700X under high magnification and learned that it was not simply large flakes, but the edges looked like a lace doily under magnification. The edges just seemed to "interlock" and aggravate the problem. I quit using it...

There are too many powders available without those problems to saddle myself with THAT for little gain.

Dale53

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi.
I am referring to Pb bullets here,
38 loads:
158 Kieth style swc Lyman 3.2 grs in a N frame Smith, 3.8 grs. in a Ruger single action & a Redhawk
160gr gc swc REI mold 3grs in the Smith, 3.6grs. in the 2 Rugers.
180 gr gc sil. SECO mould 2.5 in the Smith , & 3.2 in the 2 Rugers.
357 loads
158 gr. 4grs in the Smith, 5.4 grs in the 2 Rugers.
160 gr gc 4 grs, in the smith, & 5.4 in the 2 rugers,
180 gr gc 4grs in the 2 Rugers
These loads are hot for this powder.
Found if I went hotter in the Smith cases would stick.
Any hotter and got leading as well.
Loads in the Rugers were as hot as I dared in the W/ this Powder.
Did get some powder bridging from time to time so developed a habit of multiple taps on the powder measure.

[9.3X62AL]

Zero experience (so far) with 700-X, but I do have a one-pounder in the powder cabinet that came in with a bunch of other powders a while back--thanks for the info, folks.

800-X is a PITA through the RCBS Duo-Measure, and I tried both cylinders. Same story with that (serial expletives deleted) #7 that Bartlett once sold. Other than Lee Spoons, the powder measure has likely not been built or designed that will handle that stuff. It does measure pretty closely with the Lee Spoons, though--and is as described by Jeff, a close performance approximation to AA-7.